Game Thread Bok's Fantasy Book Mafia

[ExLight]

I need a drink :chugs:

 

[Morbid Minish]

what was it lol
a bit curious

I'll say it after the game.

I don’t know :psyduck:

whatever the reason is it seems to be working
I’d think it’s because it’s somewhat safe since we’re guaranteed to assume there’s a 3p and they usually prefer to lay low depending on their wincon so no risk of an alignment counterclaim (which by itself is arguably a reason for modkill) and worst case scenario they just get to bus someone by voting since it’s the main solving aspect of the game and would give them massive towncred?

the fact tristan doesn’t seem to have been shot by either mafia or town makes me wonder if bulletproof might be going on here

If they say Tristan is 3rd party and then say sunfan is scum, I feel like we likely lynch Tristan first to see if it's reliable because of the possible existence of a scum messenger. So that kind of backfires. Seems like it would just be easier to try to town clear a mafia member that way.

Also, you assume that we have a full vig killing role with that. X shot vig is common, especially if there's the existence of a 3rd party killing role.

 

[Rubik]

lol nice shade

because I don’t buy all the wifom you’re bringing on the table?

you saying that you got a letter like that does literally nothing but put Tristan back into the PoE as possible scum which is awfully convenient for mafia in -Lo

Tristan was always in the PoE of possible scum.

The letter was either sent to me to create wifom or to try to frame Sun.

Ok yeah I could but...

1. That's just a dumb play. If I were mafia, I could win today. Why do I care about being cleared in a situation like that to the point where I outright remove what would presumably be wolf-me's easiest way to win from the game.

2. I have zero reason, at all, to out the information I outed. That was the most pro-town thing anybody has done since start of day. Can you think of any reason I would out that info as wolf? And don't say cred, I clearly got no town cred from that.

Maybe just maybe I'm actively sabotaging my wincon to WIFOM the hell out of town for... reasons??? when wolves are about to win. But I'm definitely far from a likely wolf candidate right now.

You're not an unlikely lynch today and volunteering unnecessary information can be used to wifom your survival for another day, which is all that's necessary.

I do it all the time as scum.

 

[ExLight]

hmm

 

[Legacy of Smiles]

I don’t know
I don’t get why you’d step forward like this if you were scum

Pretty much this. I have no reason to hard shield Mellow here unless I'm town and I know for certain that chopping Mellow is game over.

 

[Legacy of Smiles]

Tristan was always in the PoE of possible scum.

The letter was either sent to me to create wifom or to try to frame Sun.


You're not an unlikely lynch today and volunteering unnecessary information can be used to wifom your survival for another day, which is all that's necessary.

I do it all the time as scum.

I don't think I'm ever at risk of dying today as a wolf if I just play my normal style, getting town read isn't something I really find difficult if I try hard enough. Sabotaging my own team for WIFOM would be insanely dumb.

Again, no need to clear me but if you think I'm more likely to be a wolf than average I'm seriously concerned.

 

[Rubik]

Pretty much this. I have no reason to hard shield Mellow here unless I'm town and I know for certain that chopping Mellow is game over.

I will say it would be a strange move for you to do this neither me nor Tristan are scum. If either of us are scum this is a reasonable play for you to make as scum, though.

 

[ExLight]

ok current tonfoil theory

mafia finding out who the messenger is and blocking them or similar disruption and rubik stepping forward with a fake result to throw shade on the tristan result?

I feel like a way to check roles + disruption is more common and likely for a mafia team than a role that can frame unusual roles like these

it makes him look townie at first because it looks like he was the target of a framed result but digging deeper it’s pretty much wifom and pushes for tristan who he had been trying to lynch since last cycle

 

[Johnny Sooshi]

so you think we have a messenger cop with multiple uses plus usual alignment cop? unless you believe that you’re straight up saying the framer role was made just for that

I do believe it. 100%. There is no world that this scenario doesn't exist.

If you think it disrupts literally all sorts of investigative abilities I already pointed out this is absurd because it implies a ridiculous amount of interactions that are unpredictable and unlikely to be in the game

I had these interactions baked into cryptid mafia, so I'm biased, but they exist imo.

and how would the disruption even happen? do you think Sun was framed or do you think the investigative role was meddled directly?

I think Sun was framed.

This actually brings up another problem which is the priority of actions. Should both the frame and the check go through on someone who died? From my experience non-tracker variant investigative roles have their priority to happen after night kills

Why shouldn't they? It contributes to information that's used to solve the game. If the frame failed because of death and the check happened after, this wouldn't be a talking point, meaning we'd have less info to solve the game with.

If I had received a letter saying tristan isn’t town I would’ve said I have good reason to believe he’s not town without further explanation and lynch him on the spot to verify if this sort of information is trustworthy to avoid this scenario we’re in right now

You would intentionally hide some info (scum trait) and push for the lynch of a player based on skewed town opinion (scum trait)?

let’s assume a framer/redirector role exists:

- it targets a rolecop, what kind of result would it give?
- if it targets a tracker, who would they see or be redirected to? Like, ok, in this case the person they tracked be seen visiting the mafia’s nightkill?
- if it targets a watcher, what would the watcher see or be redirected to? Like how does this even work? They can’t just watch the death without framing a random person lol would they see the culprit visiting whoever they watched? that doesn’t clear anyone

I'll go off the rules I baked into my Cryptid game for my frame of reference. Role cops weren't in the game. Since I stated results for a tailor would be opposites, I'd assume a general vanilla or not vanilla result depending, but realistically, I'd exclude that from the interaction.

Trackers who's target's were framed would be told their target visited the mafia kill for the night.

Watchers were also not in the game, and I couldn't begin to theorize how a watcher would be affected. If multiple people visit their target, a specific one being framed would be weird.

the fact tristan doesn’t seem to have been shot by either mafia or town makes me wonder if bulletproof might be going on here

Scum slip

I don’t know
I don’t get why you’d step forward like this if you were scum

Man, I can't possibly imagine why either =^)

If they say Tristan is 3rd party and then say sunfan is scum, I feel like we likely lynch Tristan first to see if it's reliable because of the possible existence of a scum messenger. So that kind of backfires. Seems like it would just be easier to try to town clear a mafia member that way.

If Tristan is lynched today, it's 4T vs 3S. Vig would have to guess a perfect shot, and we'd be in MyLo again tomorrow with 3T vs 2S. I'm fine with clearing the equation up a bit, but we should be careful here.

mafia finding out who the messenger is and blocking them or similar disruption and rubik stepping forward with a fake result to throw shade on the tristan result?

Yeah, I think that's actually not a bad guess. That said, if nobody is claiming receiving a letter, I'm inclined to trust Rubik still.

 

[Rubik]

ok current tonfoil theory

mafia finding out who the messenger is and blocking them or similar disruption and rubik stepping forward with a fake result to throw shade on the tristan result?

I feel like a way to check roles + disruption is more common and likely for a mafia team than a role that can frame unusual roles like these

it makes him look townie at first because it looks like he was the target of a framed result but digging deeper it’s pretty much wifom and pushes for tristan who he had been trying to lynch since last cycle

If we were going to lynch Tristan, yesterday was the day to do it. Hitting 3p in mylo is a lot more dangerous.

On the other hand, you were against lynching Tristan yesterday, then entertained lynching him today, which is the opposite of the correct order for those moves.

 

[Morbid Minish]

If Tristan is lynched today, it's 4T vs 3S. Vig would have to guess a perfect shot, and we'd be in MyLo again tomorrow with 3T vs 2S. I'm fine with clearing the equation

That was just in a scenario where sunfan was alive today. I didn't actually intend on doing that now though.

 

[ExLight]

I do believe it. 100%. There is no world that this scenario doesn't exist.

I think Sun was framed.

What do you think of the theory of a possibly exposed messenger being blocked and scum just pretending to have received a message?

It explains the inconsistency regarding colors in the message too since they didn’t have access to that information. If the result was mechanically framed I’d assume it would be consistent.

Scum slip

broken english
are you gonna shame me for that to tunnel me? I literally tried phrasing better what I meant not too long after

Yeah, I think that's actually not a bad guess. That said, if nobody is claiming receiving a letter, I'm inclined to trust Rubik still.

You missed the part I say they were probably traditionally disrupted somehow.

Role cops weren't in the game. Since I stated results for a tailor would be opposites, I'd assume a general vanilla or not vanilla result

This is role madness so definitely impossible.

On the other hand, you were against lynching Tristan yesterday, then entertained lynching him today, which is the opposite of the correct order for those moves.

I’m not pushing for Tristan at the moment. Legacy willingly stepped forward and defended him which means he has an alibi unless they’re scum together which is a ridiculously bold move even for -Lo.
I can’t see not existing scum between you and Tristan, and I feel like if I’m going to put a bit of trust on them the logical step is going after you?

I can also see a You+You team since that interaction D2 of you asking him to clear you out of nowhere was super weird

 

[Legacy of Smiles]

BTW to expand on my Rubik town read - clearly scum were attempting to frame Sun (and possibly Rubik too by having Sun and Rubik enter into a town vs town argument on the final day) and to do that then the message had to be sent to a townsperson. This is also why I think that Sun was not the scum nightkill.

I understand Ex's tinfoil and am no longer having Rubik as locket of lock towns... but we have significantly more likely wolves than them now I think.

 

[Legacy of Smiles]

I do believe it. 100%. There is no world that this scenario doesn't exist.


I had these interactions baked into cryptid mafia, so I'm biased, but they exist imo.


I think Sun was framed.



Why shouldn't they? It contributes to information that's used to solve the game. If the frame failed because of death and the check happened after, this wouldn't be a talking point, meaning we'd have less info to solve the game with.


You would intentionally hide some info (scum trait) and push for the lynch of a player based on skewed town opinion (scum trait)?


I'll go off the rules I baked into my Cryptid game for my frame of reference. Role cops weren't in the game. Since I stated results for a tailor would be opposites, I'd assume a general vanilla or not vanilla result depending, but realistically, I'd exclude that from the interaction.

Trackers who's target's were framed would be told their target visited the mafia kill for the night.

Watchers were also not in the game, and I couldn't begin to theorize how a watcher would be affected. If multiple people visit their target, a specific one being framed would be weird.


Scum slip


Man, I can't possibly imagine why either =^)


If Tristan is lynched today, it's 4T vs 3S. Vig would have to guess a perfect shot, and we'd be in MyLo again tomorrow with 3T vs 2S. I'm fine with clearing the equation up a bit, but we should be careful here.


Yeah, I think that's actually not a bad guess. That said, if nobody is claiming receiving a letter, I'm inclined to trust Rubik still.

Much better to chop somebody else then vig Mellow. This means we don't have to rely on the vig having good scum reads or immediately losing and don't immediately lose if Mellow is the person who actually does the killing like suggested earlier.

 

[Rubik]

It's entirely possible scum did all this for wifom.

It's also entirely possible that their kill was redirected to sun or blocked (with an alternate kill from a big or sk in place).