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Game Thread Bok's Fantasy Book Mafia

ExLight

melancholeric
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I get that this was a joke mostly, but it feels weird. Maybe that's me, but I tend to take Mikey's "I have no meta" posts with a grain of salt. This feels almost...forced? Like the need to throw something back just to make him look bad for making his statement. Maybe I'm just tunnelling too hard.
I kinda agree with this
This kinda fluff Moe kinda feel like jabs at other people approaching him
It's probably NAI but it kinda pings me a bit.

I have some thoughts but I need to check some things first. But at the moment SMS and Tristan are sticking out to me. I'm not entirely sure if it's in a good or bad way yet. They're just piquing my interest.
Also I did some brief looking into what I mentioned earlier. Tristan's read of SMS felt interesting to me at the time, because SMS's post actually was reminding me of Classic Video games mafia for some reason. And I checked and it did kinda feel like as town SMS is more jokey at first, whereas as scum he seems more proactive early on. And that's what I was feeling here.
I am self admittedly not great at reading SMS. And I'm not even confident at the moment. I just feel a bit odd everyone is town reading him over that post when I felt differently. And Tristan's contrast in how he read into it made me second guess myself and also kinda made me wonder if SMS is maybe town and Tristan is throwing bs out there for an easy pocket read. But it's a bit of paranoia.
Ok, so you were apparently scumreading SMS.
What did you think of his ISO and his 180° on Rag? Since you could see him as either alignment I feel like that should've raised a red flag and made you at least hesitate to keep the Rag wagon going?

I agree that Rag’s contributions have been fairly lackluster.
Can you remind me what was your opinion on the Rag x Chevy debate/interaction?

I would like to vote for Rag but I'm slightly hesitant to due to Rubik and Pen still having their RVS votes on her. @Rubik @Pen could you either unvote or say whether you would actually like for her to be lynched?
This is a fair worry that was bothering me at the time too. I kinda find funny Minish had the complete opposite opinion:

I don't think Rag is the easy vote here and I'm not sure why you think she is? She had two rvs votes on her that I don't take into consideration because they should be moved if not serious. And before I brought up my thoughts on Rag others were town reading her. It feels like you honed in on my reads list and read no other posts in the game.
This bothers me a bit. Two votes on someone is two votes regardless if it's RVS or not. Scum can sit comfortably and a wagon growing around their RVS is a good excuse for them to just leave it be or not want to move it.

Plausible enough scum.
Can we get an update on your reads and/or who you were town/scum reading D1?

This is a pretty good ISO.
can someone explain the ISO to me yeet
I found it kinda weak and I legit still don't understand what happened there
If SMS hadn't died last night I would've been pushing him for it

Pretty heavily town reading Rubik right now.
sus
 

Morbid Minish

Spooky Scary Skeleton.
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Ok, so you were apparently scumreading SMS.
What did you think of his ISO and his 180° on Rag? Since you could see him as either alignment I feel like that should've raised a red flag and made you at least hesitate to keep the Rag wagon going?
Gonna address this first. I was asleep by the time SMS did his ISO and voted Rag. I was also asleep when day ended. So no there were no flags raised because I was unaware of it til after Rag flipped.

I wasn't exactly scum reading SMS yet though. I thought he could be scum, but I also thought Tristan could be scum and I thought if Tristan was scum SMS was probably town.
 

ExLight

melancholeric
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I kinda agree with this
This kinda fluff Moe kinda feel like jabs at other people approaching him
It's probably NAI but it kinda pings me a bit.
wait this was throwing shade at Tristan
I kinda dislike this

Did you mean to say mezlo instead of moe?
Yea my sleepy ass read that as him poking your "i HaVe No MeTa" joke that kinda annoyed me so I was fine with that lol
Just realized that he was actually antagonizing Tristan's message who's like my top town read which prolly makes me annoyed at them instead
my bad

If Tristan had said he was going to follow his meta when reading someone he would've been quite the hypocrite so I feel like this joke post actually puts him between a rock and a hard place because if he says he won't use the meta Johnny hounds him down and if he uses meta he also gets hounded down so it seems like an easy post to cling on?
 

Mikey the Moblin

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wait this was throwing shade at Tristan
I kinda dislike this


Yea my sleepy ass read that as him poking your "i HaVe No MeTa" joke that kinda annoyed me so I was fine with that lol
Just realized that he was actually antagonizing Tristan's message who's like my top town read which prolly makes me annoyed at them instead
my bad

If Tristan had said he was going to follow his meta when reading someone he would've been quite the hypocrite so I feel like this joke post actually puts him between a rock and a hard place because if he says he won't use the meta Johnny hounds him down and if he uses meta he also gets hounded down so it seems like an easy post to cling on?
maybe get some sleep you're barely coherent
 

Morbid Minish

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I get this logic, but I find it rather silly. Being part of one’s meta is not an excuse to not participate when a lot was happening, especially when that person comes in later and says “lol I’m gonna keep my RVS vote cuz wynaut” which ends up resulting in a mislynch.
I didn't say it was an excuse. And y'all keep twisting my read. It's not about activity. It's about the tone of his activity. One small part of it is activity based (scum Pen getting an earlier start than town Pen, but that doesn't mean I expect or give Pen a pass for not posting once he does start posting.) I wasn't even hard town reading him or anything, just thought he was possibly town and didn't want to lynch him d1. Also, I love how no one has questioned Kirino's read of Pen for the same reason but keep jumping on mine.
 

Mellow Ezlo

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I didn't say it was an excuse. And y'all keep twisting my read. It's not about activity. It's about the tone of his activity. One small part of it is activity based (scum Pen getting an earlier start than town Pen, but that doesn't mean I expect or give Pen a pass for not posting once he does start posting.) I wasn't even hard town reading him or anything, just thought he was possibly town and didn't want to lynch him d1. Also, I love how no one has questioned Kirino's read of Pen for the same reason but keep jumping on mine.
You're referring to [URL"https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/boks-fantasy-book-mafia.70120/post-1272273"]this post[/URL] yeah? I probably overlooked it because of the relatively lighthearted tone and the fact that it was a one-off post, whereas you reiterated that read several times. Regardless, it's a bad read and I'm not sure how to feel about Kirino's sudden disappearance after his two early D2 posts so he's on my radar too.
 

ExLight

melancholeric
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ExLight
Mellow Ezlo
Mido
Kirino

Mikey the Moblin
Morbid Minish
Johnny Sooshi
Libk
Rubik

Pen/TheSunFan

Ok, so Tristan is towncore to me due to the sheer amount of dedication he's been putting in this game. They've been putting out quality content with good insights. They've been taking multiple instances and have been proactively poking around, which is great. So far he's been townleading and I feel like it's probably one of the best players to do so.

Kirino and Mido are townleans but it's nothing too insanely strong. I feel like both had good posts that contributed to the discussion in some way. They both kinda have the same spacing out feeling going on around them which I feel like is holding them back, I'd kinda like to see more activity from them in the form of maybe scumhunting or sharing original thoughts/reads.

Moe is annoying, NAI, null; all over the place and a pain to analyze in-thread, would prefer a mechanical solve if possible to save us from the stress.
Minish has me getting mixed feelings, I guess her not being around after SMS made his ISO on Rag makes sense so I don't know if I have anything to go on other than gut feeling? Null too, I guess.
I had Johnny above Moe before but after realizing he was throwing shade at Tristan rather than Moe it kinda made me drop him a bit lol, I usually have a hard time reading him since his aggressive playstyle comes off as scummy to me a ton. I had a theory in mind but the way they worded it kinda shot it down? I'm not sure what to think of this slot.

Libk is a scumlean mainly because of the RVS vote after real discussion had started and disappearing until EoD. If I had not called him out and tried to make a counterwagon I feel like he could've successfully pushed for my mislynch by doing something akin to what Rubik/Pen did to Rag.

WHICH brings me to the reason why they're at the bottom of my list yeet. Two RVS votes that were never moved and lack of participation in the thread overall. Rubik being slightly above Pen/Sunfan because of toDay's interaction with Kirino that suggests they know something we don't. This might kinda tie both (Rubik and Kirino) together in a few ways depending on what might've happened. I can only think of something that might be an instaclear for both but I really doubt it's the case. In any case I'm looking forward some thoughts from TheSunFan to maybe breathe some fresh air into the thread and maybe help sort stuff out in my reads.
 

Morbid Minish

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I also want to reevaluate Minish somewhat. She was the first to vote for Rag after 2 RVS votes and ultimately the one who swayed SMS to vote that direction (getting SMS off her radar, something she is good at doing as scum). She spearheaded that lynch as a whole and I need to rethink my townread on her a bit.
You keep saying I swayed SMS, but I never once told him or anyone to vote Rag and had no intentions to. My back and forth with SMS was because he was suspicious of me so all of that was about defending my thought process and not swaying. I wasn't super confident in my Rag read but it was what I felt best voting at the time. And it's funny I'm considered spearheading the lynch because I was purposefully trying not to be a town leader or anything because I didn't want to die n1 in a game I really wanted to play in. So my actions weren't extremely townie d1 and you can say this is to cover my ass, but it was actually because I just wanted to survive past n1.

Bundling these together because they touch on the same point. I don't particularly care about SMS's meta in this instance since people change their metas all the time. SMS was one of the first people in the game to give actual reads and was making some nice attempts to keep the game moving, which I think is a really silly thing to scumread someone for meta or not. He was acting in a pro-town manner, hence the town read.

Anyway, knowing now that SMS was town, I have to ask Minish, does my early read of him still ping you in the same way?
Early town lean on SMS. This is way different from Pen Mafia X in which he wasn't super present and made incredibly lazy reads.
This is quite funny considering the post I just quoted. Your read of SMS was literally based on meta. That's the first thing you mention. That's why I thought it was bs because I knew he's acted differently as scum than what you were saying and the fact you seem so against meta but used that to justify your read.

Knowing SMS was town, it does ping me the same way because it originally pinged me because I thought you were possibly scum giving an easy read on someone town.

What bs? You know how I feel about meta, so if I see someone say/do something that gives off town vibes I'm going to townread them for it. That's how this game should always be played and I will never ever change that opinion.
Answered this in the above quote, but for someone so against meta you've brought up meta a couple of times already. I'm not gonna townread someone just for giving reads on people early, because I find that way easier to do as scum and I do it as scum a lot.

Do you still feel this way about Pen going into today?
Yes and no. His vote doesn't look good because he kept it for no reason. His is probably my least favorite vote on Rag. But I also don't know if scum Pen draws that attention to himself as scum if he knows Rag will flip town.

You said again later that I was acting scummy but to this point you have yet to actually explain why.
Part of it is just a vibe. Your tone of posts feels like they're coming from maybe a more informed mind set. Also the meta stuff I mentioned earlier. There was one post I read after eod that I remember starting out agreeing with you and then the more the post went the less I liked it. I'll try to remember to find it later.

The lack of confidence regarding Minish's SMS read sticks out to me a bit. Saying you're not confident with a read covers your butt when that person later flips since you can simply refer back to it and say "look I never actually scumread him". And I genuinely do feel like SMS was acting pretty townie at this point.

Your read of SMS seemed to hinge on my alignment so I'm curious if the inverse is also true?
I mean yeah. But I'm also notoriously always unconfident in my SMS read and bring it up often.

The inverse was not true.

Was your entire read of Rag based on one niche game that less than half the players in this game were involved with?

Also reads list as a whole is OK, I already mentioned how half of them are null reads which is meh.
No, that was my basis for explaining the read. I read people based off of when I played scum with them a bit. So I was using that game, but it explained the scummy actions I was seeing. Which was asking questions (possibly to try to trip someone up to push them), but not going anywhere with them. Asking questions is easy because it makes it look like you're proactive without actually being proactive, so that people will townread you. But those questions never led to anything more.

Also, my reads lists when I'm scum are way more decisive, and has less nulls.

Like I said above, I feel like the entire reasoning for this vote on Rag was based on a game in which she wasn't even technically mafia, and a game that most of us have no clue about. It just seems, idk, convenient? to me that the one game you consistently referenced in your read is one most of us can't really refer to.

Was there any reason for your vote beyond meta? Because Rag is someone who I feel changes her meta fairly often so it's not a great source of a read.
Already mostly answered this above. But it's not really convenient that I referenced the closest game I have to being scum with Rag. The game was a bit complicated but we did think we were scum to begin with.

I disliked that from Rag too, but this is rather flimsy.
How is me calling someone out for things that they do as scum and then that person saying "yeah I do do that as scum" flimsy? Like that should be the most solid proof that my read was at least genuine even if wrong.

If you weren't technically scum in that game, and it was unusual in many respects, then is it really a good game to use as the basis for your scumread?
Yes. It's too complicated to explain, but we still thought we were scum at the beginning and once we realized we weren't exactly we still had to keep hidden because there was a faction that was more like "town" to our "scum".

This is where Minish successfully swayed SMS into voting for Rag (or, at the very least, prompted him to check her ISO). I still think Min's scum read on Rag was a bit flimsy so I'm surprised that SMS was swayed so easily. Either way, the important thing here is that Minish was essentially the main person behind the wheel of Rag's lynch. Mikey planted seeds for it earlier, but Minish got SMS to look in that direction which in turn was the cause for Chevy's vote, which had made Rag's wagon the central occurrence of EoD leading to Kirino's vote. Pen and Rubik kept their RVS votes on Rag in spite of the rapid acceleration of said wagon but neither really played a role in driving it.
I also addressed this earlier, but I think it's a bit much to act like I was really pushing for Rag's lynch. I was going with what I thought best at the time. Despite my read on you and SMS I was more unsure of those. If I were scum I'd probably just push you tbh. All of my posts were defending my read and vote of Rag and not pushing anyone else to vote her. If my reasoning for voting someone sways someone else that's not my fault because I can't just not give my reasons for voting someone.

The main thing I got from Min's ISO is a reminder as to why I dislike relying on meta so much lol. The bases of all her reads, including on 2 people who flipped town, are meta-related, with Rag's being based on a game that should barely even count. She drove the Rag lynch and swayed a townie to join it, so as a whole I don't think that's a great look.
I mean, you're not using meta here to read me and you're wrong. So both things have their places and I do get decent lynches and town reads from meta.
 

Mellow Ezlo

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I mentioned SMS's play in Pen's game simply to add a little support to my read of him; it was never a foundation. There's an important distinction there because I'm pretty sure I mentioned in a previous post that I find early proactivity to be townish behaviour in general. But I can see how that may be perceived as ironic.

I'll respond to the rest in a bit, been dozing in and out for the past few hours lol.
 

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