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Game Thread Bok's Fantasy Book Mafia


Jun 19, 2010
I do think it's probable that there was scum on Rag's wagon, both because of how easily it piled up and given her experience. I also think that Chevy was a safe wagon for scum to move onto after he voted for Rag (even if I understand why people wanted to lynch him), and that it's worth scrutinizing the people who jumped to him as well.

Concerning Rag's wagon, I counted 7 different people on it: Rubik, Pen, Minish, mikey, SMS, Chevy, and myself. Of those, the last three are confirmed town (to me, anyway), the first I'm strongly town reading, and the second I'm slightly town reading. That leaves Minish and Mikey as the ones I'd like to focus on today, although I'm not quite letting Pendio off the hook.

Concerning those who switched to Chevy, they consist of Mikey, Johnny, and Libk. I'd like to look at both of the latter today, too.

Mikey falls under both categories. I'm having a hard time reading him as usual, but his consistency in pursuing Chevy makes his vote there unsurprising, and aggressively jumping on such an anti-town move seems fairly typical of him, so I'm not too bothered by it. His vote on Rag, by contrast, was sudden and unexplained until today, although that's admittedly not unusual for him either. In any case, I'll have to ISO him to get a better read.

I quite like how much Tristan is contributing and analyzing now, as it reminds me of the play that caused me to town read him in previous games. He only started doing it near the end of D1 and after being prodded on it, though, so I'm hesitant to give him too much town cred.

By contrast, I really dislike how @Mido fell completely under the radar. His first three posts were all on the same day and fairly decent, and his fourth (and last) post the next day said nothing substantive. His initial posts were just enough to make it look as if he was contributing to the point that most people largely ignored him, in contrast to other inactives such as Libk and Pendio, so I think he warrants more scrutiny today.

I'm also expecting @Pendio to actually contribute. There's likely a vig given Chevy's death, so depending on whether they pick things up, either him or Mido might make good targets.

This post is mostly just me throwing out my initial reads, since my thoughts on other players will require me to look more in-depth and ISO.

Johnny Sooshi

Just a sleepy guy
Nov 1, 2011
a Taco Bell dumpster
That's illegal.

Pretty heavily town reading Rubik right now.
Consider this everyone's last warning.
Obviously role powers, however, blatantly asking or declaring things related to your role seems to fall under softing, so I'd say we don't push the envelope too much on this.

did you even...
have you seen the eod vote count?
I literally asked for vig to shoot chevywolf because otherwise everyone tunnels on them today and nothing gets done >.>
Tbf, a smart SK sees your call for a kill on chevy by the vig and does it.

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Dec 2, 2012
Good post by Tristan overall, and I'm sure I'll reread it to pick it apart more, potentially, but I don't like this here

What exactly about the vote was there to like? It was a measured vote that stuck to a player that they really didn't think was scum. It plays out very similarly to Pen, who you criticized for maintaining a vote when he had no real reason to. It also, as you noted, put Rag in hammer range. L-1 is more likely from scum than an actual hammer, which maintains the safeness that the post seems to give off.
I wouldn't remotely compare Kirino's vote to Pen's. Kirino made it clear that he thought Chevy was town and moved his vote off Libk after he made a solid entrance, leaving Rag as pretty much the only other option. Pen, on the other hand, made an RVS vote early on and left it for some nonsense reason.

I'm not giving Kirino a pass. L-1 is a really dangerous spot to vote. I'm just saying of all the Rag votes, his is the one that I can understand and/or get behind the most.
why is it opportunistic?
The timing, mostly. He sat off Chevy most of the day, only responding to a few of the things he said, and then jumped on as soon as Chevy did something remotely scummy. It was a great opportunity for scum to jump on an easy town lynch with a valid reason since Rag was becoming pretty obviously town by that point. Admittedly, though, that read was somewhat hingent on Chevy flipping red.

This is compared to you who had been tunneling Chevy all day, something I think is a better look but still not great.

Also can we please cut the hostility in this thread uwu

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Dec 2, 2012
I also want to reevaluate Minish somewhat. She was the first to vote for Rag after 2 RVS votes and ultimately the one who swayed SMS to vote that direction (getting SMS off her radar, something she is good at doing as scum). She spearheaded that lynch as a whole and I need to rethink my townread on her a bit.

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Dec 2, 2012
@Mido I think also needs to speak up a bit. His initial posts were pretty good but his disappearance after the game was getting moving is really fishy.

I would also like to hear more from Libk. He had a solid entrance at the end of the day and his Chevy vote looked pretty sincere, so I'd like to hear his thoughts now that Chevy flipped town.

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Dec 2, 2012
Yeah a bit suspicious of Chevy, because he didn't sound joking and seemed to just flip to that when he was called out for also voting Mikey. It's hard to tell with him though because I kinda feel like he did something similar in a previous game.
Suspecting Chevy at this point is fair, the main thing I noticed is that this was before people started town reading him. Could be early seed planting for a later lynch, but that's stretching it a little.
I have some thoughts but I need to check some things first. But at the moment SMS and Tristan are sticking out to me. I'm not entirely sure if it's in a good or bad way yet. They're just piquing my interest.
Also I did some brief looking into what I mentioned earlier. Tristan's read of SMS felt interesting to me at the time, because SMS's post actually was reminding me of Classic Video games mafia for some reason. And I checked and it did kinda feel like as town SMS is more jokey at first, whereas as scum he seems more proactive early on. And that's what I was feeling here.
Bundling these together because they touch on the same point. I don't particularly care about SMS's meta in this instance since people change their metas all the time. SMS was one of the first people in the game to give actual reads and was making some nice attempts to keep the game moving, which I think is a really silly thing to scumread someone for meta or not. He was acting in a pro-town manner, hence the town read.

Anyway, knowing now that SMS was town, I have to ask Minish, does my early read of him still ping you in the same way?
Chevy had some posts a bit back, the ones about it being his fault if he were mislynched, which actually sounded pretty genuine. Especially the post replying to Rag asking why it would be his fault and not the ones misreading him where he said because he got himself into the situation of being misread. I feel like scum is more likely to shift blame off of themselves, and town is more likely to feel bad for playing in a way to make town mislynch them.
Fair, and I agreed with this at the time.
I am self admittedly not great at reading SMS. And I'm not even confident at the moment. I just feel a bit odd everyone is town reading him over that post when I felt differently. And Tristan's contrast in how he read into it made me second guess myself and also kinda made me wonder if SMS is maybe town and Tristan is throwing bs out there for an easy pocket read. But it's a bit of paranoia.
What bs? You know how I feel about meta, so if I see someone say/do something that gives off town vibes I'm going to townread them for it. That's how this game should always be played and I will never ever change that opinion.
This is the same feeling I had about Pen. He's much more eager when he's mafia and chill when he's town.
Do you still feel this way about Pen going into today?
Mellow Ezlo - I tend to scum read Mez when he's town and vice versa. So no solid read on him yet, but he feels a bit scummy to me so we'll see if tradition keeps.
You said again later that I was acting scummy but to this point you have yet to actually explain why.
Spiritual Mask Salesman - I think if Tristan is scum SMS is town. If Tristan is town though SMS can go either way for me. I do kinda feel a bit more of his scum play, but I could also just be reading him wrong like I often do. I'll just need more info there.
The lack of confidence regarding Minish's SMS read sticks out to me a bit. Saying you're not confident with a read covers your butt when that person later flips since you can simply refer back to it and say "look I never actually scumread him". And I genuinely do feel like SMS was acting pretty townie at this point.

Your read of SMS seemed to hinge on my alignment so I'm curious if the inverse is also true?
Pen - Mentioned it briefly before but slight town read because he seems chill and laid back which reminds me of town Pen. Scum Pen seems to like to get down to business early, and he loves being scum so I would have expected him to pop in sooner if he were.
I get the thought process but I still think this is a really silly reason to townread someone. Especially when you had SMS, someone who was proactive and making attempts to move the game forward, as a null/seemingly scum lean.
Ragnarokio - I was originally town reading Rag for her prodding of Chevy, but the more I read the more I kind of went in the opposite direction. Her posts remind me a bit of when me and her were "scum" in an NGA game together. However we weren't truly scum as our goal was to just take down one person. But we were still hiding stuff that game so it's a bit similar.


Vote: Rag
Was your entire read of Rag based on one niche game that less than half the players in this game were involved with?

Also reads list as a whole is OK, I already mentioned how half of them are null reads which is meh.
We were still keeping our alignment hidden and Rag feels like she's acting more like that than like she's town.
Yeah I don't try to read her by activity any more. I moreso try to look at if she feels like she's solving, or if she feels like she's prodding to look like she's solving.
It's more of a vibe thing, because I feel like that game you sounded really agreeable in thread, and would poke/question a lot of things. I'm not 100% positive that's how it was but that's my recollection of that game. And that's how I felt you were this time, rather than you pushing instead of questioning.
Oh yeah, I don't think you were diverting attention from you in that game. And I don't feel like you usually do as scum except maybe when you've been inactive. It's moreso that information gathering that I feel you do a bit less as town. Though I could be mistaken but that's my recollection of your meta.
Like I said above, I feel like the entire reasoning for this vote on Rag was based on a game in which she wasn't even technically mafia, and a game that most of us have no clue about. It just seems, idk, convenient? to me that the one game you consistently referenced in your read is one most of us can't really refer to.

Was there any reason for your vote beyond meta? Because Rag is someone who I feel changes her meta fairly often so it's not a great source of a read.
It's interesting you don't know if my Rag vote is serious or rvs but seem to know my readslist well enough when the vote was included in it. Also me and Rag had a whole back and forth after that as well.
This is actually a good callout.
Pen doesn't have to post a ton for me to have a read on him. I'm using his meta which is I find that he jumps in way sooner with a more serious tone when he's scum because he loves to be scum. The opposite of that would lead me to think he's possibly town this game. That's not a stretch by any means. Also, Kirino said the same thing yet you neglect to point that out.
It was a stretch because he literally did nothing that one can read into by this point. I realize that's the whole point you were trying to get to but - well I've already said my thoughts on that lol.
And if this wagon on Rag is bull what do you say about her own admittance that she's been playing more towards her scum meta?
I disliked that from Rag too, but this is rather flimsy.
I think Rag would absolutely say she's playing to her scum meta as scum. She's very smart and knows that something like that would look favorable. So it's not AI to me. And yeah most people aren't familiar with the game I am referencing and it was an unusual game to begin with. But I read people easier by being scum with them and that's the closest I have to that with Rag. You don't think that a case that someone who is usually more aggressive and proactive in helpful ways as town, but how is proactive in more fake ways (just prodding but not doing much else) as scum is strong? I don't know what to tell you there. I see a difference in her plays (one she admitted to herself, after I voted her mind you so it must have been a strong case if it were true) so I'm going to follow that.
If you weren't technically scum in that game, and it was unusual in many respects, then is it really a good game to use as the basis for your scumread?
I'm not giving him a pass. You're acting like I've town locked him, when I just think his play has warranted him a town enough read to not want to lynch him today. Also it has nothing to do with activity like you're seeming to imply (except for I think he would have been active in the game sooner as scum), it has to do with tone.

They're absolutely not stretches with hastily made conclusions, especially considering the fact that I tend to read them on these things in other games as well.

I don't think Rag is the easy vote here and I'm not sure why you think she is? She had two rvs votes on her that I don't take into consideration because they should be moved if not serious. And before I brought up my thoughts on Rag others were town reading her. It feels like you honed in on my reads list and read no other posts in the game.

As for you and Tristan, it was explained in my reads list. I'm bad at reading you both. Tristan seems a bit scummy to me and usually when I read him scum he's town. So I don't want to mislynch town d1 on a **** read. I feel like I can solve him and you with more posts. Rag I feel like is someone who will become more inactive the less interested she gets. And I actually felt like she was my strongest case after thinking about everyone.
This is where Minish successfully swayed SMS into voting for Rag (or, at the very least, prompted him to check her ISO). I still think Min's scum read on Rag was a bit flimsy so I'm surprised that SMS was swayed so easily. Either way, the important thing here is that Minish was essentially the main person behind the wheel of Rag's lynch. Mikey planted seeds for it earlier, but Minish got SMS to look in that direction which in turn was the cause for Chevy's vote, which had made Rag's wagon the central occurrence of EoD leading to Kirino's vote. Pen and Rubik kept their RVS votes on Rag in spite of the rapid acceleration of said wagon but neither really played a role in driving it.
I just woke up so I'll post more later but wanted to say this while the flip was still fresh on my mind. I don't know a ton about these series but I know some bits about some. I feel like I may have an idea of what SMS's role was but not sure if y'all want me to share that because it would also be giving mafia that info.
Keep it to yourself for now probably.

The main thing I got from Min's ISO is a reminder as to why I dislike relying on meta so much lol. The bases of all her reads, including on 2 people who flipped town, are meta-related, with Rag's being based on a game that should barely even count. She drove the Rag lynch and swayed a townie to join it, so as a whole I don't think that's a great look.

Mikey the Moblin

sushi is a suspicious hello
Aug 31, 2014
southworst united states
The timing, mostly. He sat off Chevy most of the day, only responding to a few of the things he said, and then jumped on as soon as Chevy did something remotely scummy. It was a great opportunity for scum to jump on an easy town lynch with a valid reason since Rag was becoming pretty obviously town by that point. Admittedly, though, that read was
So what makes that more opportunistic than just staying on rag?

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