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General Classic Best Aspects of the N64 Zelda Games

Shnappy

derp
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Location
Colorado
OoT and MM are two of the best games ever created in mine and many others on this forums' opinion. The aspects that make these masterpieces stand out are near uncountable.

I think the biggest reason these are games are regarded as legends in this series is because of how big of a jump they were from the previous four games. While these first four games were remarkable, the graphics were mediocre (except I thought LttP's were amazing). The N64 games were the first 3D Zelda games, and might I add they were an aesthetic masterpiece. The game's visuals were extremely awesome, and they introduced a whole new way to play Zelda. These 3D graphics allowed for a whole new fighting system. It was no longer just "hack at the moblin with your sword until they die". First of all, you can lock on. Battling is way easier and feels much more natural when you're locked on. Then there's the ability to slash different ways. Jump and vertical slash, stab, spin attack, and everything else. And you can also side step, back flip, crouch with your shield up, etc. 3D fighting overall gave a much better experience to the Zelda game.

The 3D Hyrule that OoT provides gives us much more freedom, and the same goes for Termina in MM. For a lot of the previous games, there weren't many towns/significant regions, and there wasn't much other than the dungeons. Because of this, the stories were much deeper and easier to fully understand, and there were many sidequests/subplots. OoT had plenty of sidequests to get things such as the Biggoron Sword and Ice arrows, but MM really went haywire with the sidequests and I loved it. If I counted right, you only need 4 of the 20 non-transformation masks. The remaining 16 provide a sidequest of some degree, and sometimes the sidequests were very extensive and quite a blast to complete. The premiere one is the Couples Mask, which requires us to create the well-known Anju and Kafei sidequests, which requires us to do various specific tasks and specific times throughout the three days. But the overworld isn't the only good part; the dungeons were greatly improved. Instead of a normal 2D plane with all of the same puzzles, the 3D dungeons have much more complex puzzles and structures. Instead of having random puzzles, the dungeons have more of a "main theme", such as the gears and water flow in MM's Great Bay Temple, and the Dark and somewhat scary atmosphere of OoT's Shadow Temple.

The items in these games also introduced a great aspect. Because of the capabilities of the new game engine, items were much more fun to use. In the previous games, every item was very simple, and just going in one direction and pressing a button. However, in these two games, the items are much more complex. You aim in first person with the bow and shoot in a very specific place. The Great Fairy items gave very interesting abilities. The ocarina has you play specific songs and plays a huge part in the storyline. Overall, every item is more fun to use, and lead to even more interesting items in future games such as TP.

I feel that these games really made a huge leap in the Zelda series to introduce tons of new aspects, and kind of laid out the map that future Zelda games have followed. Because of the impact that these games made, they are considered the best games in the Zelda series and sometimes the best games of all time.
 

Flagpole

I'm back!!
Ocarina of Time and Majora Mask are two great games, and if I had to describe their best aspects this post would be so long... so I will make it a little short :) .

The first great aspect I want to talk about them is their story. Each of them has its own great story, with its own twists that make them interesting. Each of them also have it's grade of complexity, as well it is worth mentioning they are both deep (being Majora Mask unarguably deeper than Ocarina of Time): in Ocarina of Time the sotry progresses almost at every dungeon you beat, which makes Ocarina of Time very interesting in terms of story. Majora Mask has a shorter story, but much deeper, in which Link must save Termina, a parallel universe of Hyrule,in a period of three days, or else a moon will crash it and Termina's habitants will die.
Also, the side-characters add more sadness or happiness to the story, like in Majora Mask, where almost everyone is affected by the Moon, or in Ocarina of Time, when Ganondorf takes the world, where, for example, when you talk to the Gorons who are going to be feeded to Volvagia, you see they are kind of desesperated.

The soundtrack is also something great both games include. From the Kokiri forest tune to Termina's overworld music, each place has it's own unique music, which sets the mood for each place (of course, some places, like Lon Lon Ranch and Romani Ranch, have the same music).
Who doesn't love Oarina of Time's Serenade of Water, or Majora Mask's Song of Healing?
Who wasn't creeped by Ocarina of Time's Shadow Temple soundtrack, or Majora Mask's Ikana's soundtrack?
To me, the soundtracks from both games are among the best videogame's soundtrack ever, and probably many people thinks the same way (or maybe not).

The items are also great. Each of them has it's own function, being solving puzzles, world exploration or killing enemies.
An example of a great item is the Hook/Longshot, a Zelda classic item.
Anothert example is the masks at Majora Mask, like the trasnformations masks, with which you can transform to a Deku, Goron or Link (or to Fierce Deity Link).
All (or almost all) of both game's items are great, and have great uses.

The dungeons are some of the best Zelda dungeons.
Who doesn't love the mysterious theme of the forest Temple?
Or the sacred theme of the Fire one?
Or what about the puzzling Water Temple, or the creepy Shadow one?
And the intimidating Snowhead Temple? And the devilishly-hard Great Bay one?
There are so many memorable dungeons in both games, each one being of top-quality.
In Ocarina of Time, almosr each one would confuse you, especially the Forest and Water temple ones.
Both of them are puzzly and challenging at the same time, and both have great use of the items found in there, as well as items you got from previous dungeons or places, like the Hookshot for the Forest Temple and the arrows for the Water one.
As for Majora Mask, each dungeon it's unique in its own way, especially because you have to transform Link into a Deku, Goron and Zora to solve the various puzzles in each temple.


Well, that's all for my short post...
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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Ocarina of Time basically renewed the Zelda series. Bring in fully functional 3D polygons rather than a top-down view, it became the standard layout for MANY games, even if it did use Super Mario 64's engine. The music was amazing, the graphics were amazing, and the boss battles filled you with a LOT of tension. And then, the story was just great. Of course, there were those who thought that OoT was just a rehash of ALttP, but I believe them to be wrong in too many ways to count.

Majora's Mask decided to use OoT's engine and recreate Hyrule as a whole, this time calling it "Termina". MM allowed for a mysterious plot, fully fleshed out characters who actually interacted with you. It was sad, made the player actually feel remorse for going back in time every 3 days.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Location
It's a secret to everybody
the best aspect of both is how you feel like your in the game. im a dude, not a wimp at all, but there are several moments in both where tears come to my eyes. no matter how annoying you may think she is, when navi flies away at the end of oot and the epic music starts playing, dont deny thats sad. watching anju and kafei waiting to die together always gets me as well. the n64 zeldas have changed my life, Amen.
 
A

Adolf Wolf

Guest
okay so I was going to post this in the comments of the article on the front page but then I wrote a lot and figured ... hey, I'm already a member.

OoT and MM are two of the few games (not just of Zelda, but in general) that I would say have soul. It's hard to give electrical components a soul let alone much else these days, but these games have it. Why? For OoT, maybe it was because it was the first 3D Zelda. The team had room to experiment, because no one in the world really knew what to expect (not even the team themselves). For MM, maybe it was because it was finished so quickly? The team had to use all sorts of new, fresh ideas to complete the game within a year. Improvisation can truly be beautiful.

The newer games have less soul because it is clear they are meant to sell LOTS. Nintendo may not have expected OoT to sell that well, but for TWW and TP, they wanted, hoped, and planned to sell that well. Rather than letting the games come from the hearts of the team, to me, the newer games feel like they are coming from the hearts of the executives. Rather than being open to experimentation, after the successes of OoT and MM, Nintendo wanted to make something that WE like, so that WE spend money on it. Why do you think the series suddenly became so kid-friendly with TWW? Nintendo wanted to sell games to everyone, because there's more money in everyone. Somewhere, somehow, the goal changed from making a great, enjoyable experience to making the most profit.

Of course, making money was the goal of the N64 games too, but that was before OoT became known as "one of the best games of all time." I mean, let's face it, things change after that kind of attention. IMO, Led Zeppelin's last good album was Physical Graffiti and Pink Floyd's last good album was Animals. You may like Presence or the Wall, but to me those records just don't live up to beauty, artistry, sincerity, elegance, and overall perfection of Houses of the Holy or Dark Side of the Moon. Sure, that's all music from the late '70s, but it is similar to how I feel about Zelda.

The point is, it's all about expectations. No one really knew what to expect from the N64 games, really. After its success, the masses wanted another OoT. MM got complaints because it wasn't enough like OoT. TWW got complaints because it didn't look enough like OoT. And then we get TP, which to me felt like I was just playing OoT again. So, perhaps in trying to live up to the expectations after OoT and MM, the magic just wasn't there anymore. The newer games feel almost, dare I say ... forced.

The point of this topic is probably to focus more on aspects of the games themselves, but as a fan of good art and as an artist myself, I think it's the emotions and intentions involved with the creating of art that have the most important effect on the outcome.



PS
I am by no means bashing TWW or TP, for the record. I love those games. Just trying to compare and contrast is all ...
hahaha same with Presence and the Wall, btw ...
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Location
Mccomb, MS
Controls. Have any of you ever played the Ocarina of Time/Master Quest disc or the Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask on the Collector's Edition disc? Man that C-stick blows
 
Joined
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Location
The TARDIS
Wow... that's a lot of reading... I don't have time to read through the whole thread right now, but I will make a point to check it out sometime soon. Because of this, I may repeat something that has already been said, so forgive me if I'm just repeating everyone else.

One of my favorite things about these two games (OoT and MM) was their puzzle aspects. Being the first 3D Zelda games, they pioneered the way 3D dungeons and puzzles worked in the Zelda series. Though they weren't the first to incorporate the use of multiple floors (ALttP was an earlier game that took great advantage of this), the way they handled so many things on just one floor of a dungeon set the basis for all future 3D Zelda titles.

Prime example: Water Temple. The two words that set off 90% of Zelda fans. I personally had little trouble with this dungeon my first time through (and for that matter all other Water Temples as well). I think I've heard Axel say before that swimming through water gives more of a three-dimensional movement (unlike just running around on the ground) requires more abstract thinking and puzzle solving skills to beat those kinds of dungeons. With OoT being the first Zelda game to pull something like this off, it became a precedent for the series--and we see this in other dungeons like the Great Bay Temple and the Lakebed Temple, although not with quite the intensity of OoT's Water Temple.

Stone Tower was another one. With the flipping of the dungeon, unrealistic elements were added to further complicate the puzzles in this dungeon (not to mention it still had a couple of water puzzle areas).

That's the biggest thing for me that these games introduced.
 
P

PineapplePod

Guest
The freedom of doing things when you want, and how you do it. Also the great items are another fantastic feature :)
 

Alar

Clothed in Green
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Location
England
Pure Nostalgia... Revisiting Old memories or the same three days over and over and over.
 

Michael Heide

The 8th Wise Man
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Location
Cologne, Germany
Hi.

Let me preface this by saying that I don't consider the N64 games the best Zelda games ever made. Gasp. Blasphemy, you might say. But hear me out: I've played the Zelda games since the first one on the NES. To me, Ocarina of Time was a step backwards in various areas. Yes, it had 3D graphics, but at the cost of the cute sprites from Zelda 3 and 4. The N64 characters were much too blocky, too spiky for my tastes. Yes, it had a twisted mirror version of Hyrule, but so did LttP. The controls were less precise than in previous iterations. Without a jump button (like in Zelda 4), the game decided when Link wanted to jump off a cliff and when not. The context-sensitive A-button made you roll against doors instead of opening them, talk to overly chatty characters that just happened to stand close by, etc. The camera was better than in most other 3D games of the time, but still led to problems you just never had in 2D.
And Majora's Mask was a great game, but to me, it strayed too far from the Zelda formula. It wasn't the first Zelda game not to feature the eponymous princess, but at least Link's Awakening had the classic "go through eight dungeons, collect eight items of interest, enter the final dungeon, defeat the bad guy (who even assumes Ganon's form during one fight round). Majora's Mask took quite a few liberties with that formula. It is a great game, without a doubt, but I wouldn't call it the best Zelda game. Mainly because it tries so hard not to be a Zelda game. I wonder if it would have been better to change the characters and create a new franchise using the same engine. But I digress.

I might not consider the N64 games the best Zelda games, but they are far from the worst. And even the worst Zelda game is better than most of the competition. However, there were some things that made OoT and MM truly legendary.

1.: Innovations.
The N64 had the last Zelda games that dared to reinvent the wheel. Yes, there was the 3rd dimension and all that came with it, but that was mainl cosmetic. Far more important was how they fleshed out the background of Hyrule. They introduced us to the other races of Hyrule. Not counting the Animal Village from the dreamworld of Zelda 4, this was the first time that most of your allies didn't look human. In fact, once MM introduced us to the transformation masks, neither did Link. Furthermore, Ganon, who had always looked like, well, a Moblin, actually appeared human for most of the game. Then there was the Deku tree. The Gerudos. Jabu-Jabu. OoT added a lot of backstory to "save kidnapped princess" and showed us how Impa took care of Zelda, or how Zelda had become an independent heroine in her own right (Sheik).
MM went one step further (or a huge step in a different direction) in creating a completely new world. Termina.
Oh, and then were the dugeons. Up until OoT, every dungeon looked the same. Some were blue, some were green, Zelda 4 had a splash of water here and a bit of lava there. But OoT made every single dungeon unique. Wood temples. Fire temples. The inside of a whale. A desert pyramid.
Oh, and you were able to play different songs on your flute (instead of choosing it from the item menu like in Zelda 4). A feature that has haunted the series ever since, culminating in the painful Restoration Songs from Spirit Tracks.
Since then, the games didn't invent (or even reinvent) that much. After overshooting the mark with MM, I guess they were too cautious and didn't want to risk another AoL flop. They keep recycling races, dungeon concepts (A wood temple? Again?! Another sea temple?), endbosses, mechanics and other elements again and again. Yes, Wind Waker gave us the Rito. But they were just the Zora in a disguise slightly better than that of the Goron salesmen.

2.: Story/characters.
OoT changed the "Find the Princess" plot like no other Zelda game before or after the N64. Princess Zelda had a motivation, a backstory, she was more active than in any other game (though an argument could be made for Spirit Tracks). Wind Waker tried to copy that with the Tetra character, but there was one major difference. In OoT, there was a boring princess that surprisingly turned into a kickass tomboy. In Wind Waker, it was the other way around. Which was kinda lame.
But that wasn't all. OoT played with different times. Two Links, one a child, one a young adult. Each with their own set of items. And they used that time travel element to the fullest, my favorite being the closed circle paradox of "who wrote the song of storms?". Now let's be fair. Twilight Princess had a great story. Wind Waker? Well, the concept of a direct sequel to OoT, with all of the easter eggs (the windows in Castle Hyrule!) that were made possible because of that, wasn't bad. The great flood, Castle Hyrule at the bottom of the ocean (come on, who did not get chills when they first heard the classic Hyrule Castle Theme?)... Story wasn't Wind Waker's biggest flaw. And yet, one could argue that no Zelda game after the N64 had a story rivalling OoT's (or MM's) epicness.

3. The size of the open world.
The NES Hyrules were big. Not huge, but let's keep in mind that Miyamoto only had 8 Bit to work with.
The Super Nintendo Hyrule doesn't seem that much bigger - unless you realize that almost every corner of the world existed in two versions, light and shadow.
Link's Awakening was a step back, but we're talking about a Game Boy game here, let's be fair.
Then came OoT, and WOW! Hyrule was f***ing huge. You could go everywhere if you had the necessary items and knew how to get there. Termina in MM was smaller, but full of life. Every character had their own little story, their own motivations and their own hopes and dreams. Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks have little specks of land with boring travel sequences in-between. Twilight Princess was big again, but it wasn't such a huge leap from Wind Waker to TP as it was from LA to OoT.

Were the N64 games the best Zelda games ever? That depends on personal taste. But they were good. Really good. If Nintendo truly wants to make Zelda great again, they need to stop recycling OoT's plot, setting and structure. They need to do what they did back then. They need to be innovative. They need to create a new, bigger Hyrule. Preferrably without Gorons, Zoras and their respective fire and water temples. They need to craft a truly epic story that reinvents the wheel instead of stripmining Ocarina of Time. They need to make that new game less linear.

If they manage to get all of that right, we can enter a truly Golden Age of Zelda gaming. One where we have an epic scenario and the hardware to make it all possible.
 

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