Beliefs and relationships

[WraithHawk]

Personally I find that differences in beliefs will rarely destroy a relationship for me but that it does limit the scope of a relationship. My best and longest-lasting friends and lovers have beliefs that are similar to mine. I find that the more strongly opposed views I have with friends and acquaintances the harder it is to form or maintain a close bond.

This isn't due to a conscious discrimination on my part but more due to a shared understanding that we are not alike, that there is always going to be a wall between us, that the wrong words can spark a disagreement that will leave the both of us frustrated or disgusted.

I am willing to allow opposing viewpoints into my life because it's healthy if you can treat it with maturity. But...it's a very hard obstacle to overcome when it comes to truly intimate (platonic or otherwise) relationships.

In terms of like, religious, I'mma go ahead and say I don't think I could be friends with someone who was seriously a Satanist. Like, call me old-fashioned, but there's just something a little off-putting about someone choosing to identify with the teaching of evil. It's like if there was a religion that supported I dunno, like punching kittens, puppies, babies, and hamsters. I think I'd be a little wary of someone that was like "well, yeah, I obviously go in for all that and I'm going to a kitten punching next week." It isn't just that they're harming another creature, it's that out of all the potential ideologies they chose that one?! What kind of person chooses that one! .

You know, I'm actually really curious about your stance on the Satanic Temple. I'm going to go ahead and assume you're not familiar with it (because most people aren't, not because of an assumed close-mindedness) and provide some examples/context.

First and foremost it's a non-theistic religion (so they do not in any way worship Satan) that focuses on promoting egalitarianism, social justice, benevolence and empathy among all people. It adopted the imagery of and association with Satan because it views the literary Satan as a metaphor for (pragmatic) skepticism, personal autonomy and curiosity and thus uses it as a symbol of an "eternal rebel" against arbitrary authority and social norms.

Personally I think it plays up the Satan imagery too much and that it does more harm than good for their overall image. They use the imagery for the shock value, to draw attention to their actions which are intended to benefit a much wider scope than their own church but I can't shake the suspicion that certain elements within the church leadership take a bit too much pleasure in poking the bear, so to speak. This is essentially the sole reason I am not a member of the Satanic Temple, as their satire, whether or not it actually has antagonistic intent, is rather easily misconstrued.

First off, their tenets are, largely, sentiments that Jesus himself would have a hard time finding issue with.

Secondly, they run the Protect Children Project, which aims to draw attention to and stop the use of corporate punishment and related disciplinary practices in schools by invoking first amendment rights and securing legal aid against schools for any student whose religion opposes the use of physical and psychological abuse. To clarify, this is a service provided to any student whose religion meets the criteria, not just children belonging to the Satanic Temple.

Furthermore they have fought for the rights of non-Christian religions to have the voice they are legally entitled to in otherwise Christian-dominated settings. When Governor Rick Scott of Florida signed a bill allowing student-led prayer in school assemblies, the Satanic Temple was quick to show their support, as the bill didn't specify which religion (their goal being less to promote Satanic worship in schools than to draw media attention, through the absurdist lens of Satanic prayer, to the fact that Muslims, for example, could lead said prayer if they wanted). Similarly, they felt that the Good News Club had a de-facto monopoly on after school religious presence and thus started After School Satan in response to A) again draw attention to the fact that other religions have legal rights to follow suit and B ) teach kids empathy for others and critical thinking skills to enable them to make good life choices (which, admittedly, is partially aimed at avoiding indoctrination but nevertheless is a valuable life skill outside of the religious sphere).

Oh, and they've also offered protection to Muslim-Americans (in their words "We would be glad to escort you where you need to go without advertising our presence–just big dudes walking you where you need to be") following the 2015 terrorist attacks in Paris due to concerns of it triggering a fresh surge of anti-Islamic sentiment and crimes domestically.

I'll admit that they target Christianity...almost exclusively but that's mostly due to America's religious climate and political hypocrisy towards non-Christian faiths. The Satanic Temple is obviously biased towards non-theistic worldviews but they do respect the religious choices of others and fight to defend their rights to those choices, albeit often in ways that border on the absurd and with satire that can be hard to identify as such.

In terms of children, I would like to raise them to at least know about my faith like my parents did, but I think it is something they should choose for themselves.

I really respect this and love seeing this stance from a religious individual. As a non-theist I'll be raising my child/ren to know what my SO and I believe (or more accurately don't), but also with a general overview of the various faiths of the world. They'll be told why we don't believe in them but also that if they choose to believe in something (and preferably once they're adults so they can make a decision that's based more on personal deliberation and discovery than something like peer pressure for example) that's perfectly fine with us.

 

[Misty]

I'll admit that they target Christianity...almost exclusively but that's mostly due to America's religious climate and political hypocrisy towards non-Christian faiths. The Satanic Temple is obviously biased towards non-theistic worldviews but they do respect the religious choices of others and fight to defend their rights to those choices, albeit often in ways that border on the absurd and with satire that can be hard to identify as such.

I was actually aware of most of this stuff, yes. I've known a Satanist or two in my time on this Earth. I respect the action as much as I would in any other circumstance from any other person. I'm not really discussing the action so much as the idea. The catholic church feeds people in Africa and it doesn't make me think they should be gone any less.

It's not about the action in that way. I understand they would say their simply choosing an emblem that stands against arbitrary authority. That's not an entirely unfair argument on their part, it's just a very coy one. The coy part being that you don't get to entirely reframe, remarket, and ignore all your symbolism for the one you like, right? You can play him as a symbol of skepticism, but there are plenty of symbols of skepticism out there to choose that aren't also associated with in no particular order and certainly not exhaustively: temptation, child sacrifice, war, sin, destruction, hatred, disease, witchcraft, possession, fear, terror, betrayal, jealousy, and boy howdy could I go on.

Now, I realize they would probably say "not my Satan". But I think we've learned in one or two other debates about religion from the skeptics that cherry picking is a sin. You don't have to worship to represent and you don't get to be all coy and control freakish about what Satan stands for. Particularly when you had to really really put on the blinders to ignore the 85% of what he stands for that is bad to come up with your Buddy Satan 15%.

I understand they chose it to thumb their nose at anyone who cares about that 85%, and on some level I respect thumbing your nose at people for fun, but something about choosing a figure who literally represents all evil, suffering, and temptation and rebranding him as Skeptic Jesus to piss off folks while claiming to stand for egalitarianism, social justice, benevolence and empathy among all people strikes me as well, the opposite of that. And not just the opposite, but opposite in an unethical deceitful, and dark sort of way. And opposite enough that I doubt we're going to develop a healthy friendship because that radical skepticism they're claiming to represent clearly never got put upon their own movement.

And that's not mentioning the Satanists I've met or heard of from the most unlikely of people in my life who were actually for ya know, hexing people, sacrifice, possession, abusing the weak, spreading chaos and mayhem. You know, the stuff Satan actually stands for as opposed to this rehabilitated Satan.

TLR: You can stand for skepticism, egalitarianism, social justice etc. without hitching your symbolism to the Prince of Lies most obviously literally worst figure in all of human thought. If you choose him, it tells me a lot about your character past any good deeds you may perform and it isn't a good thing it tells me.

I really respect this and love seeing this stance from a religious individual. As a non-theist I'll be raising my child/ren to know what my SO and I believe (or more accurately don't), but also with a general overview of the various faiths of the world. They'll be told why we don't believe in them but also that if they choose to believe in something (and preferably once they're adults so they can make a decision that's based more on personal deliberation and discovery than something like peer pressure for example) that's perfectly fine with us.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure by simply living with me they won't eat pork, shellfish, and will respect the Sabbath, and they'll hear about why I'm doing that and what I think of the other religions available...but it won't be like getting waterboarded by it and having to go to church and be pressured or anything else to that nature. It'll be: this is what I'm doing and why. These are the things I'm not doing and why. When you grow up, if you decide differently, I'll argue with you about it then like I would with anyone else, but you're free to make that choice without losing me or my love.

 

[dk902466]

Differences in political beliefs as well as spiritual keeps things interesting for me personally. When I was in my late teens and early twenties it was a source of anger, being that I was becoming progressively more liberal while my family was doubling down on the conservative movement (I'm in the US). We have both settled into our sides, but I try my best to keep an open mind about politics. I mean, we're all pretty stupid as people so I'm not going to insinuate that my way is the only way that works.

You just have to choose your battles when it comes to closer relationships and what you speak about, be it political or spiritual. I've made an effort to avoid some people because of how they make me feel for those beliefs, and also for how they see me as a person. Definitely don't put yourself in an echo chamber but if someone belittles you for your beliefs then they aren't worth expending the energy to try and argue. More often than not it just makes them double down on their own beliefs and opinions.

 

[Link Floyd]

I make friends with people based on their character rather than their beliefs. Most of my friends are very left-wing and/or atheists, while a handful of them are conservatives. It doesn't matter to me what a person believes, it's why they believe it and how they treat others that matters to me.

As for my history of having friends, I've had most of my falling outs with extreme left-wing people. I grew up believing that conservatives were the most intolerant people on earth, when in reality people can be like that on both sides. And there are just as many open-minded conservatives as there are liberals. It was a hard truth I had to learn, and it makes me sad that I can't be friends with someone just because I hold a few conservative values.

As for a romantic partner, it doesn't really matter what they believe politically. However, I don't think I could date an extremely religious person.