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Hyrule Warriors Are the New Twilight Maps Too Hard?

Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
Now that we've all had time to play the new scenarios, it's become pretty apparent that a few of them are tipped fairly far into the realm of 'difficult'. I've seen numerous posts on MiiVerse complaining about the difficulty, with many people apparently throwing up their hands. But are these new scenarios really too hard? I mean it's no secret to anybody by now that some of the enemies on a few of the scenarios can really shell out the damage (personally, my record so far was a 22 heart hit). But is that enough to make a level "too hard" to play or beat? Is heavy damage enough to make something truly difficult? What about the difference between simply playing through levels and getting A-ranks on them? Is that what people are really talking about when referring to the difficulty?

I'd like to hear what a few people think before I weight in with my own opinion.
 

Akuhime-sama

What's Life Without Adult Humor?
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Well, it would definitely be way too hard for beginners, but as you level up your characters and get stuff on their badge markets, it shouldn't pose much problem.

Though my guys are pretty high and they still face some tough challenges... :/
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Location
Minnesota
Getting A Ranks can be very stressful. Even at Level 100+ with all maxed out defense badges, a single hit from a Stalchild can hurt your chances of getting an A on some stages. It's especially bad on stages that have no recommended element and require you to take less than 4,000 damage to get an A. One thing I've discovered that helps is the Item Power-Up in the Apothecary. I fire the charged bow with rapid succession and attack all tough foes from a distance to avoid taking damage. I've gotten several A Ranks thanks to the Item Power-Up. I'm so close to Acing the entire Map. But there were certainly struggles along the way. And I did get incredibly frustrated a few times.
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
Australia
Most certainly yes. Some of them are very hard.
One of the hardest is the get 1000KOs within 10 minutes. Link and Darunia only. I did it after like 50 different attempts at it. And here is how I managed to get really lucky and ace it.
  • Choose Link and the Master Sword. You need the legendary power unlocked for it.
  • You are going to spam the weak, weak, strong combo. At full health it spits out 3 beams. These beams kill the hordes very well. If you mess up and do the wrong combo it is likely you will get hit.
  • Link was Level 120 at the time. You want a high level Link so you kill the hordes with one combo hit.
  • How you beat the stage is like this, you find a pack of hordes and target the captain or whatever near the pack. You quickly manoeuvre yourself so the horde pack is between you and the captain. Then you use the above combo a few times to kill the horde pack. Then you move on to the next pack. In the run where I Aced it for A-Rank I did kill the captains (not enemy heroes or Agnarok) with the above mentioned combo at range.
  • This stage is basically a do not get hit stage. As you need full health to do the upgraded combo to kill all the hordes. If you get a hit you can heal yourself 1x with the red pot in the keep you start in and 1-3x with the healing potion.
  • Watch out for the Agnarok. When you near the 1000KOs there will be 4x Agnarok up your ***. And yes they do camp the horde packs so you have to risk it at times and kill the horde packs underneath the Agnarok. If you wait for them to pass or keep picking off the stragglers not near the Agnarok you will never make the 7 minute time limit for A-Rank.
  • Expect to do this stage over and over and over before you A-Rank it. There is no element recommended so armour badges do nothing. 1-2 hits from the Agnarok flame kill you and 1 hit from the Agnarok flame is enough to kill your A-Rank run.
  • Do not try unlimited fat bombs with the Twilight Princess potion. I guess you could do this with Darunia in 10 minutes for the heart piece. But for the A-Rank forget it. The fat bomb does not do enough damage to the hordes. You need on average 3 fat bombs to kill the hordes. If you do want to try the fat bombs for the 10 minute fun just remember to fail the mission and retry it without going back to the map. If you fail the mission and restart it from the defeat screen you keep your bought potion. But if you go back to the map screen, then the potion is gone and you have to remake it to use it again.
  • This stage is unfairly hard. Either you are massively skilled at this game or you're like me and will take many many attempts before you finally A-Rank it. I did it in like 6:55. This is one of those stages that, after you A-Rank and get all the loot from you never go back to. This stage is just too hard and not fun.

Well, it would definitely be way too hard for beginners, but as you level up your characters and get stuff on their badge markets, it shouldn't pose much problem.

Though my guys are pretty high and they still face some tough challenges... :/
Most of the harder stage have no favoured element so the badges are useless for them.
 
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Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
You know, I would think that Darunia's flame wave combo would be more effective than Link's combo, since you don't need full health to make it work… you'd just need Darunia to be high enough level for it to pack enough of a wallop.
 
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DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
When your favorite series is Zelda, everything seems hard by comparison. Assuming you beat the previous two maps, this shouldn't be too challenging.
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Location
Minnesota
It's strange. I don't recall having any trouble with the 1,000 KO challenge with Link/Darunia. It certainly wasn't the toughest challenge on the map (for me). For Link, I mainly just ran around and used YYX and Strong Attack. For Darunia, I mainly used YYYX and Special Attack occasionally. Darunia was only around Level 80.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
Well, now that the conversation has at least begun, I feel like I can start talking about difficulty. Truthfully, I'd wished there would be a bit more discourse to draw from, but good graces are these forums slow… Anyway, let's get on with it.

First, I want to address the general difficulty of the new maps as a whole. When I say 'difficulty', I'm referring to how hard it is to beat the mission. Suffice it to say, I do not think the new maps are too difficult. There are some new mission types that are downright easy, like Protect the Bombchu. Not one single map in that regard has given me the slightest iota of trouble, and I've A-Ranked each one on the first try regardless of character level. There are some mission types, like the new dividing enemy scenarios, that also require a great deal of patience. Special attacks seem to do barely any damage, but thanks to the nature of the level you pretty much need to use them. A few characters or weapons can deliver simultaneous attacks, but not many. Personally, these are my least favorite mission types. However, 'tedious' does not equal 'difficult'.

It is evident that the damage has been scaled up on many of these new maps as well. Some of them just have a slight increase in damage, or at least appear to because they have no recommended element. I honestly don't have a problem with this. From what I've seen, even with characters between levels 50 and 80, I've needed this increase in damage to stay invested in the level. I routinely alternate between playing Twilight maps and Master Quest maps for completion, and I have to say I can't play more than 2-3 of the MQ maps at a time without getting sleepy. I can pick any level I want (for the heart container), breeze through it and get the A-Rank. I would almost say the new maps have spoiled me, because going back from that edge now seems extraordinarily dull.

But I feel we're closer to the heart of the issue here. There is a big difference between playing the maps to just beat them and uncover new maps or unlock costumes, and playing them for the Hard Skulltulas or A-Ranks/Rewards. If all you're doing is the former, then these missions are hard enough to keep your interest but otherwise not overly challenging. They're basically just compensating for increase in skill on the end of the player. By now, most of us have cleared or played mostly through Legend Mode and two Adventure Mode maps. Naturally, the new maps need to be objectively harder in some way just to challenge you the same amount as the earlier maps did when you players weren't as good as you are right now. But if you're going through for A-Rank rewards, that's a different story. In a few of these maps (not all, but some), a single hit from an enemy that isn't a mob can end your attempt on the spot. And even a few careless hits from simple mobs can do it too, i've seen them do 2-4 hearts of damage on a few maps. But when you think about it, we've already had maps that were essentially this difficult to A-Rank. They were in Master Quest, and they said 'Don't Get Hit!'. However, I think players are reacting to these new maps very differently for a reason. First, in the two prior maps, these levels readily stood out. They had summaries like "Watch Out! All attacks are devastating," or the aforementioned 'Don't Get Hit!'. But with names like that, players were expecting that to happen. So when you first take a hit and your entire health bar is shredded down to your last quarter heart, your reaction might be shock but at the same time it still seems fair because the game warned you. It's also mitigated by the fact that you can also 1-shot all enemies. Those elements work together to tell the player that the name of the game has changed. The Adventure Maps were all about forcing the player into a variety of new circumstances to make them adapt new strategies, widening the breadth of experiences delivered by the game and increasing the number of meaningful choices the player could make and implement, leading to an overall increased enjoyment of the game. With the release of Master Quest, and the new "DGH" stages, they at first seem daunting. You have to do the same things as before, but now your health is shredded down and your enemies get full health? Crazy! That was, until you leveled up more. While the levels retained a certain element of risk, you eventually became powerful enough through leveling and weaponry to slice through even officers with just a speedy combo or two. Reduced conflict time with enemies meant less chance to be injured by them, resulting in an easier time completing the stage without taking damage.

But the kicker that I think comes with the new maps is that there is no outward signal to the player that they are about to take astronomical damage, or face absurd odds at their current level. One example I can think of is this. My Cia, at one point, was around level 53. I started a mission that required her, on the Ruined Hyrule Field map. The game started, and I moved into the closest keep to take it and try to secure my rear lines. As I'd done so many times before, I executed her simple YYYX combo. The Keep Meter didn't budge. I did the combo again, and the meter still remained motionless. At this moment, I thought that maybe there was a problem with my game, perhaps it was having some lag issues and hadn't caught up. I executed the combo the third time, and the meter jumped down. It struck me then, the answer to my confusion: the keep meter was fine. It was just that the first two attacks weren't strong enough to even kill a minion. Soldiering on, I took the keep and proceeded to a mob of enemies and officers. I resigned myself to the fact that there was no likely way I was going to complete this mission, and just then I took a hit from a little minion… for 10 hearts of damage. Well, I decided to fight on for the EXP and just let myself die whenever. Really in the face of something like that, it's hard to be upset at a loss. What did I think would happen? But I was confused because that level has no outward sign that it was so out of Cia's league.

These new maps seem to have elevated the difficulty to an untenable degree… at first. However, my guess is that once the majority of players out there get their levels and weapons closer to their maximums, they will see that this spike in damage was necessary. With the new level cap, you'll be capable of much more. If you reach a level that seems punishingly difficult the first time you play it, it's highly likely you'll just have to suck it up and come back later. Because in the end, it comes down to player engagement. Sure, it can seem that at times when you're frustrated, the new levels are just too much. It can seem that the frustration can be a turn off. But if that happens, I'd advise you to go back to some of those older levels with some of your strongest characters. You may just find that 'sickeningly easy' is worse that 'frustratingly difficult'.

And between you and me, Cia is looking forward to her return to that map...
 
Joined
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Well, now that the conversation has at least begun, I feel like I can start talking about difficulty. Truthfully, I'd wished there would be a bit more discourse to draw from, but good graces are these forums slow… Anyway, let's get on with it.
On the whole I have to disagree with you. Sure there are a few stages on the TP map that are not too hard, like the protect the bombchu stages. But most of the other stages are hard as nails. My Lv130 Link with a 45o damage weapon is really struggling on some of these stages. Just completing these stages is relatively hard. About as hard as A Ranking the 1st map stages. But A Ranking the TP map stages is a real pain. Heart pieces are worthless as are armour badges because of the lack of a recommended element.

Quite a few TP stages require Gannondorf to do. And at Lv80 with a 420 weapon he simply does not do enough damage to get the job done. And you can't go too hard to get more damage as a few hits and you'll never get the A Rank because the damage you take is sky high.

My major issue with the TP map stages is this: There is only a very limited way to work towards making the stages easier. More damage with more character levels helps sure, but not as much as you'd think. And some of the TP potions might help also. For the most part they haven't for me though, as spamming the upgraded bombs does not do enough damage to kill the hordes efficiently and you can't use the break enemy guard potion too much because you'll take a few hits doing so thus never get the A Rank. This does make farming materials for the armour badges rather pointless for many of the harder stages. There should have been more ways to slowly work towards making the stages easier, to reward time spend farming within the game. But alas this is not the case. It's down to skill, luck and more character levels to beat the TP stages. For the harder TP stages if you are below character Lv100 the stages will be very hard as you simply will not do enough damage. This is most apparent in the kill 2/3 enemies at the same time stages.

For most of the TP stages you just level your character up part Lv100, work out the best way to do the stage and hope you get lucky and don't take too much random damage. I must say these stages are not very fun in this regard. Running around to avoid damage so I don't take more than 10 hearts damage knowing I have a time limit and can't run around too much or I fail the time limit is annoying.

The main failing of Hyrule Warriors (in my opinion) is the game giving you all these hearts and armour badges but then being told that they are all worthless when you want to A-Rank the harder stages of the game. That is like playing Zelda 1, getting the blue and red rings and having them not work at all in the harder dungeons. Also all your extra hearts would disappear too. That's pointless, we get these defence power ups and hearts so we can use them in the harder stages to make them more manageable. We can use these upgrades in the easy stages where we do not need them and can not use these upgrades in the harder stages where we do need them. That's really backward thinking.

The don't get hit stages are not really about levelling up. They are about finding ways to kill enemies long distance you you never get close to them. Taking on captains or enemy heroes face to face always puts you in danger of getting that one hit, and most times you do get hit. The trick is to level up enough so your long range combos and hits do enough damage and always stay out of their hit range. Not really a fun way to play the game but that is the most effective way to do those stages in my opinion. Using the potion for the always upgraded arrow at a very long range might be a way to do these stages as well, I've not tried it. I have tried Link's master sword long range beam and that works a treat for these stages. There is no KO requirement for these stages so you just kill what you need to, at a very long range and move on.

It's strange. I don't recall having any trouble with the 1,000 KO challenge with Link/Darunia. It certainly wasn't the toughest challenge on the map (for me). For Link, I mainly just ran around and used YYX and Strong Attack. For Darunia, I mainly used YYYX and Special Attack occasionally. Darunia was only around Level 80.
That stage is very very hard. That IS a fact. I've mentioned this above though. It is doable with spamming Link's master sword beam weapon and staying at full health for the upgraded beam. Past that it's just luck that you don't get hit much or have one of the 4x Ragnarok camping over the pack of hordes you need to kill. Very hard stage to A Rank. And it seems the game developers designed it this way intentionally. If there was a recommend element at least so the armour badges work, then maybe I'd give the developers a break, but no there is none.

People cry that Zelda 2 is hard. I'd say this Hyrule Warriors is the hardest Zelda game ever (excluding hero modes of other Zelda games).
 
Joined
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For those struggling to A Rank the entire map, I found a solution that has really helped me Ace many challenges. I use the Item Power-Up in the Apothecary. But I don't spam the bombs, I spam the bow. The bomb is actually not really effective. It takes too much time to throw and completely scatters enemies. The powered up bow, on the other hand, immobilizes everything it hits and has a great range. The trick is to fire the bow in rapid succession. To do this, tap evade the moment you fire the bow, then fire again. It's much easier to shoot quickly using the "dodge and shoot" trick than trying without dodging. Using this technique, I have gotten an A Rank in several challenges. What I like to do is get enemy captains clustered together, lock on to one of them, and just shoot over and over again. Another thing that really helps with this method is characters that have the Darkness or Light weapon skill. With this skill, as you're firing arrows at a foe, you'll notice the "purple/white X" that appears on the enemy. It means that your bow attacks gradually do more damage. This method may seem tedious and ineffective the first time you try it. But trust me. It works. At least it did for me.

That stage is very very hard. That IS a fact. I've mentioned this above though. It is doable with spamming Link's master sword beam weapon and staying at full health for the upgraded beam. Past that it's just luck that you don't get hit much or have one of the 4x Ragnarok camping over the pack of hordes you need to kill. Very hard stage to A Rank. And it seems the game developers designed it this way intentionally. If there was a recommend element at least so the armour badges work, then maybe I'd give the developers a break, but no there is none.

I tried doing that challenge again. I failed. I guess I really did get lucky. And maybe I did struggle but just suppressed my memory of it. One thing I remember that kept happening for me is that one Argorok always seemed to get stuck in a northwest part of the stage.
 

Ventus

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I have a LV118 Link with Master Sword + Evil Bane, he walks through every map that I can use him on. Dodging enemy hits is far too easy in this game. That said, any slipups will result in major damage which is probably where the "too hard" comes in.

For me personally, the only hard parts come when I am not using Link, Lana, Darunia, Zelda, Cia, or Ganondorf. I don't like the play styles of any other character currently available.
 

Akuhime-sama

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I have a LV118 Link with Master Sword + Evil Bane, he walks through every map that I can use him on. Dodging enemy hits is far too easy in this game. That said, any slipups will result in major damage which is probably where the "too hard" comes in.

For me personally, the only hard parts come when I am not using Link, Lana, Darunia, Zelda, Cia, or Ganondorf. I don't like the play styles of any other character currently available.
My highest level Character right now is Ghirihim. He's currently 126 or so, and I have the same problem.
(by the way, He's the highest because He's both mine and my firend's favorite character, so, even if I don't intend on making him the highest, it was kinda bound to happen. All in All, I really would have liked everyone to stay the same (or right around the same) level.)

But anyway, as I was saying- Yes- It's just insane. One little tiny tap from a moblin, and you've lost an A rank? That's STUPID.
( I bet I can see comics being made about this. xD ) - But seriously, that's not a 'difficulty' issue, that's just annoying. I'm sure there are much better ways to 'amp up' the challenging factor- if that is indeed what they were trying to do.
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
I'm not particularly experiencing any difficulties with the Twilight Map, but then again I'm not particularly bothered about what Rank I get after a mission. I've mostly been getting A or B ranks mostly because of Time or the odd damage taken, but the amount I've taken or left isn't far from an A rank.

I think the fact that I'm not bothered about getting nothing but A Ranks has somewhat eased the difficulty a bit, but from my opinion I don't think they're that difficult to achieve. Alas I have much of the Map to unlock so my opinion could change but so far I seem to be completing missions without many problems.
 

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