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An examination of all the arguments for the timeline placement of BotW and my conclusion

Discussion in 'Zelda Theory' started by Moblinking5000, Jul 23, 2017.

  1. Moblinking5000

    Moblinking5000

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    The timeline placement for BotW is a subject of intense debate, but this is a close examination of all evidence used that I know of and my conclusion.

    REASONS FOR THE ADULT TIMELINE:
    -Rito and Koroks.
    -Medoh could be named after Medli.
    -Rock Salt from an ''ancient sea''.
    -Ruto and Nabooru remembered as sages.

    REASONS AGAINST THE ADULT TIMELINE:
    -Ritos in this game have different abilities(such as the children being able to fly without any mention of getting a scale from Valoo), and Zora still exist, leading me to believe that these Rito are different, such as the River Zora and Sea Zora. Koroks are slightly better, but since the Kokiri are spirits, they have the ability to turn into the Koroks anytime they wish.
    -Hyrule is destroyed in TWW's ending, and the conflict involving Ganon and the Triforce comes to an end in that timeline according to HH, meaning neither should be in BotW.
    -The Master Sword isn't stuck under the sea in BotW.
    -Aonuma stated that this game has no relation to TWW in an interview.
    -Unlike Ruto and Nabooru, Medoh is not explicitly mentioned as being named after Medli.
    -There's been tons of ''ancient seas'' in Zelda aside from the Great Sea(the Sand Sea in SS, the Sea that Link is sailing in in LA, the sea surrounding Hyrule in FSA, etc)
    -Ruto and Nabooru are remembered as sages in the downfall timeline as well(see AoL).

    REASONS FOR THE CHILD TIMELINE:

    -''Steeped in the embers of twilight''.
    -Gerudo are in Hyrule in BotW, and haven't been seen in the Adult or Downfall Timelines aside from OoT.
    -No MoT found in the Arbiters Grounds.
    -Sea Zoras are in this game, and haven't appeared in Hyrule the DT or AT since OoT.
    -This game is in Old Hyrule, as proven by the ToT,
    -Aonuma said that playing TPHD is the best game to play in preparation for BotW.


    REASONS AGAINST THE CHILD TIMELINE:

    -the Japanese word for twilight in this cutscene is ''Tasogare'', which was the word used to refer to the Dark World in the Japanese version of ALttP, with ''Kage'' being the word used in TP. Also, there are allusions to the other branches in the JP version.
    -Gerudo weren't in TP, either, but they showed up in FSA.
    -The word for the AG in the JP version is different from the JP version of TP.
    -The ToT is destroyed in TP, and it's not completely destroyed in BotW.
    -Ruto and Nabooru were never sages in the CT.
    -One of the monuments says that the Zora founded the current Zora's Domain 10,000 years ago when Calamity Ganon was sealed by the previous hero, providing an explanation for their return to Hyrule.
    -Aonuma is a business man and TPHD and BotW are the two latest Zelda games, so he had to sell them somehow. And it's unknown whether he was talking about the timeline.


    REASONS FOR THE DOWNFALL TIMELINE:

    -Hyrule is in an era of decline, a recurring theme on the DT.
    -Sheikah exist in the DT, whereas they're implied to be extinct on the CT and AT. Impa has only appeared in DT games aside from pre split games such as SS and OoT.
    -Ganon is at his most inhuman in this game, and the DT has him losing more and more humanity.
    -Aonuma said that Hyrule in BotW has seen ''many battles with Ganon''. Ganon appears the most in the DT.
    -The Triforce is in full possession of the Royal Family, something that only happens in the DT.
    -There is a known tradition of naming every princess Zelda in Rhoam's Journal in HC, a tradition only acknowledged by Hyrule's rule of law in the DT(see the Sleeping Zelda story).
    -The Tunic of the Wild, the only tunic not made available with amiibo and actually earned without out of game materials, is very similar to the tunic that multiple Links in the DT wear.
    -Ruto and Nabooru are remembered as sages, and in Old Hyrule, only possible in the DT.
    -While not the most damning evidence, Lynels have only appeared in the DT.
    -Zelda says before the Final Battle against DBG in the JP version that Ganon has been revived many times, which only happens in the DT.
    -Only branch with possible evidence of a reemergence of Hylia worship(see the Goddess Statue in AoL)
    -Ganon is trying to destroy the world, which is what he's trying to do in the DT after his botched ressurection in the OoX games, whereas in OoT, TWW, TP, and ALttP he wants to rule it.
    -The Hylian language dialect is the same in both ALBW and BotW.


    REASONS AGAINST THE DOWNFALL TIMELINE:

    -Races(which I countered above)
    -The twilight reference(ditto)
    -Medoh(ditto)
    -Rhoam saying that Ganon was cunning. This could just be an assumption from Rhoam, but even if it's not, keep in mind that even though HH says Ganon was mindless in Zelda 1, it's not literally true, as he had a plan of attack in Zelda 1, so mindlessness seems to be a euphemism for insanity for DT Ganon; even in the OoX , he demonstrated self awareness(I am Ganon... the Evil King...)


    In conclusion, I place BotW in the DT long after AoL, as it has the most evidence and the least problems IMO.

    Any rebuttals are welcome.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  2. DragonEleven

    DragonEleven

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    A fair assessment... and the fact that there's so much against each of the established timelines is one of the main reasons I think a fourth timeline should be considered.
    Personally, my guess would place it in an alternate adult timeline, likely splitting off during the events that led to the Great Flood... the hero didn't appear in the WW timeline, but he may have done in an alternate timeline... the manga in the Hyrule Historia does imply that there should have been a Link alive at that time.
    A fourth timeline would also allow for alternate versions of the various events referred to within BotW to occur in the same timeline without conflicting with one another, and they could easily flesh this out in future games.


    While not necessarily specific to my theory, I also have a few things to add...

    The speech Zelda gives in BotW that you referred to for it's mention of twilight actually refers to games in all three timelines... the other references are in the second half which can barely be heard in the english version, but can be heard in other languages and refer to ALttP and WW.

    Whether or not the ToT in TP is the same one as was in OoT is debatable... there is a theory that they are two different temples, with the OoT temple being in one of the inaccessible areas of Castle Town in TP, and the pedestal where the Master Sword is found in BotW (along with other games) being all that remains of the TP ToT.

    The fate of the Sheikah in the CT and AT is extremely unclear... they were already thoguht to be extinct in OoT, with Impa being the only known Sheikah to be remaining at the time, but their appearances in the DT, Impaz in the CT, and all of the Sheikah in BotW disprove that.
    None of the references to their supposed extinction actually confirm that to be the case... they all either state that they are thought/believed to be extinct (but that doesn't mean they are) or only refer to the Shieikah in Hyrule as being extinct (implying that they could have survived outside of Hyrule).
    There is also a sign in the hidden village of TP that translates to 'Welcome to Old Kakariko', which implies that there is also a 'New Kakariko' elsewhere.
    The possibility for Sheikah to live outside of Hyrule is also enforced by BotW, as it is implied that any Sheikah who did not abandon their technology were forced to leave Hyrule.
     
  3. YIGAhim

    YIGAhim Sole Survivor Forum Volunteer

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    Isn't it clear?

    They haven't decided yet themselves!

    Since almost all of the evindece counters all of the other evidence, it's all a jumbled mess!

    Why wouldn't they have told us yet about the timeline placement? Well, so stuff like this could keep going on. If anyone had any concrete evidence (Which there is none, since it isn't decided yet), this whole issue would be over, so to fix that, they don't have an answer and Might never have one.
     
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  4. Stormageden747

    Stormageden747 Alfie, Dark Lord of All

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    Some people even believe that the timelines have merged. I think it would be awesome but not possible.
     
  5. BlackWolf//WhiteAngel

    BlackWolf//WhiteAngel When all else fails use fire Forum Volunteer

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    We really don't have any idea as to where BotW will be on the timeline, but I really want it to be on the CT mostly because there is a disproportionate amount of games on the DT compared to the other two, and it would be weird if it was on the AT. Also a timeline merge doesn't make sense. How can a place have three different histories at once?
     
  6. YIGAhim

    YIGAhim Sole Survivor Forum Volunteer

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    "The oral tradition" hit some wise-guy
     
  7. Link Floyd

    Link Floyd Fab Floydian!~

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    I like to think BotW is where all of the timelines intersect, but after thoroughly examining the rich history and deep lore of the Zelda universe, I can conclude that Nintendo hasn't put any sort of thought into it themselves. Like I said in my 'Legend' thread, BotW's story is just another among the many stories within the legend of Zelda. This is just another story passed down from generation to generation...within an entire book of other stories that make up the legend.

    That's the most accurate theory in my opinion, since we have no solid evidence from the geniuses at Nintendo.
     
  8. Moblinking5000

    Moblinking5000

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    How would the timelines intersecting/converging even work? You'd have an entire kingdom both flooded and not flooded at the same time, Ganon gone for good, still around being ressurected constantly and reincarnated as Ganondorf II, etc.

    And since even the second game was a sequel and third was a prequel, they do put some thought into it, even if it's not their number one priority.
     
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  9. blitz_dragon

    blitz_dragon The Hero of the Wild

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    Guys while all of this is very interesting you have to remember that BotW takes place 10,000 years in its own self contained history. 10,000 years is a really long time, especially so in a world where magic and goddesses exist and where a whole continent can be flooded and new race can be created in a century or so (Wind Waker). What I personally believe is that BotW is so far into the future that whatever timeline its in does not matter at all. The names of the sages could just refer to other people who just so happen to have the same name, the hero of twilight could just refer to another hero who had to do something for the twilight realm, another evil force of "twilight", or another parallel dimension similar to the twilight realm, and so forth.
     
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  10. Moblinking5000

    Moblinking5000

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    It can't be in the AT, as Hyrule is destroyed at the end of TWW, and HH implies that Ganon is gone in that branch, not to mention the MS is beneath the sea.

    The CT has some serious problems, too, because the sages from OoT were awakened, and the ToT is still standing.(and they can't just be new ones with the same name because Ruto's monument summarises the events of OoT from the point of view of the Zora)

    Also, if we do accept the DLC costumes as canon(which I guess I can't complain about as long as you're consistent, although that means accepting that TP and ST share the same history somehow despite being on two different branches with two different histories, accepting amiibo as canon, accepting the MS as canon in the OoX despite not even being in Hyrule, etc.), keep in mind that TP Link had the title ''Hero Chosen By The Gods'', not ''Hero of Twilight'', and the JP version apparently says that it's ''a warrior of twilight who fought during Hyrule's war'', not ''Hero of Twilight'', which sounds a lot different from the events of TP.
     
  11. TattooArtist

    TattooArtist I'm the B and my boyfriend is the T in LGBT ❤

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    I believe my theory has more depth to this. But, not bad. Zelda's speech bugs me, though.
     
  12. Ryuu Kage Desu

    Ryuu Kage Desu

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    I have to laugh a little when talk about 10,000 years being able to everything, and anything. If you look up Europe that long ago, not much has changed. There are even human remains that are still intact from 10,000 years ago. Granted, humans were very primitive back then, but 10,000 years is not some fix all reset button.

    I drew up some maps, that I talk about here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/hyrule-topography-based-on-breath-of-the-wild.61104/
    Due to my own comparison of terrain, locations, and the like, I have independently concluded that the child timeline is less likely, and the down fall timeline is the most likely.

    I have been looking in to time travel in the series, and I do think there are two universe splitting games. I am contemplating whether to make a thread about it, or combine it with some smaller ideas.
     
  13. DragonEleven

    DragonEleven

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    Time travel is not needed for a timeline split.
    While time travel is the cause of the child/adult timeline split, it was not the cause of the downfall timeline splitting off from them... that was simply caused by a win/lose situation... so there could theoretically be a timeline split at any point where Link could potentially fail in his quest (I personally think that one such moment may already have been hinted at).
     
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  14. Ryuu Kage Desu

    Ryuu Kage Desu

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  15. sidewinder572

    sidewinder572

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    Hi everyone. This is my theory on BOTW timeline placement. Now I need to provide a little background. I haven’t played every LOZ game, but I have watched and read my fair share of timeline articles and videos.

    Is it possible that there is no timeline and Nintendo just made it up to make fans happy? Also the reason BOTW is set so far in the future is to separate it from any other game as far as any timeline goes?

    I heard a quote one time that botw is the “real” zelda game and the others are myths and legends that the in game characters tell their children. To me this makes sense. One of the biggest things that I never read about is the 10,000 year gap.

    It’s not 10,000 years between botw and another game. It’s 10,000 between battles with Calamity Ganon. Divine beasts and all. 10,000 years is an extremely long time. In our world this practically goes back to cavemen days.

    During the King Rhoam cutscene he does mention something about legends and stories about Ganon. Urbosa says “it was written that Calamity Ganon once took the form of a Gerudo” I’m sure there are many other examples.

    In conclusion. I feel that people are making way too much of a thing about Breath of the Wild’s timeline placement. I believe that the game is set so far into the future that the other games are simply myths and legends.

    That’s all I have for now.