ALttP Before OoT?

[Pinecove]

@Zemen: Give me one example where Ganon lives on after Ganondorf dies.
The ALttP manual implies that Ganon is just a nickname for Ganondorf.

The man's name was Ganondorf, commonly known as the evil thief Ganon.

Source: http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/text/z3translation/z3_manual_story.html

see?

 

[Zemen]

Give me one example where Ganon lives on after Ganondorf dies.

I'll do better than that, I'll give you 3 examples.

FSA, ALTTP, LoZ

We know that Ganondorf is dead at the end of WW and TP. No matter what side of the timeline you put FSA, ALTTP or LoZ, they all feature Ganon and they all take place after a game in which Ganondorf died. Those are 3 examples of games where Ganon is alive even though Ganondorf has previously died.

The ALttP manual implies that Ganon is just a nickname for Ganondorf.

The only time Ganondorf is ever called Ganon is when he is in his beast form.

Example: In the final battle in OoT, when it shows the title of the boss it calls the human form Ganondorf and the beast for Ganon. This is the same situation in TP.

In WW, they call Ganondorf "Ganon" throughout the game UNTIL you actually meet him face to face and he introduces himself as Ganondorf. As soon as it was established that he was not in his beast form, the title of Ganondorf was used for the rest of the game. They only called him Ganon up until he was encountered in his human form.

One implication is contradicted by the entire series. Nintendo has done a great job of differentiating the two names by always calling the human Ganondorf and always calling the beast Ganon. As I said, the only exception is WW in which they call him Ganon until he is encountered in his human form, then he is known as Ganondorf for the rest of the game.

 

[Pinecove]

I'll do better than that, I'll give you 3 examples.

FSA, ALTTP, LoZ

We know that Ganondorf is dead at the end of WW and TP. No matter what side of the timeline you put FSA, ALTTP or LoZ, they all feature Ganon and they all take place after a game in which Ganondorf died. Those are 3 examples of games where Ganon is alive even though Ganondorf has previously died.

LoZ Ganon: Doesn't have an explenation no matter where you put him. In any case, we don't know really. The LoZ Manual says he was a "prince of darkness".
FSA: He's Ganondorf in that game before he gets the ToP.
ALttP: Once again, he was human before he obtained the Triforce.

The only time Ganondorf is ever called Ganon is when he is in his beast form.

What about the ALttP manual?

In WW, they call Ganondorf "Ganon" throughout the game UNTIL you actually meet him face to face and he introduces himself as Ganondorf. As soon as it was established that he was not in his beast form, the title of Ganondorf was used for the rest of the game. They only called him Ganon up until he was encountered in his human form.

One implication is contradicted by the entire series. Nintendo has done a great job of differentiating the two names by always calling the human Ganondorf and always calling the beast Ganon. As I said, the only exception is WW in which they call him Ganon until he is encountered in his human form, then he is known as Ganondorf for the rest of the game.

Lol NOA.

In the Japanese version of TWW Ganondorf is never called Ganon. Want to see the quotes?

 

[MrMosley]

LoZ Ganon: Doesn't have an explenation no matter where you put him. In any case, we don't know really. The LoZ Manual says he was a "prince of darkness".
FSA: He's Ganondorf in that game before he gets the ToP.
ALttP: Once again, he was human before he obtained the Triforce.
What about the ALttP manual?
Lol NOA.

In the Japanese version of TWW Ganondorf is never called Ganon. Want to see the quotes?

Aren't you just proving Zemen's point here? You originally said that it was just a nickname, but all of your points here make it clear that he is Ganondorf at one point, while human, and Ganon while in his pig form.

No matter how you look at it, Ganon was never called Ganondorf on a regular basis until OoT, when we actually got to see him as a human. He is also called Ganondorf in ALttP when its talking about him prior to obtaining the Triforce, prior to his transformation, and in FSA it does the same. To not see a clear distinction between him being referenced as Ganondorf more while human and Ganon while beast is just blind.

 

[Pinecove]

Nope. I'm saying while he's called Ganon when he's in his pig/moblin/demon form, he's still just Ganondorf on steroids, not a separate entity.

 

[MrMosley]

Nope. I'm saying while he's called Ganon when he's in his pig/moblin/demon form, he's still just Ganondorf on steroids, not a separate entity.

Ohh okay. I think we both agree on that. Just got confused a little bit there.

 

[Ikana]

I really don't know but this is interesting topic.He is called ganon when he is in his pig/moblin form or whatever you want to call it.Hes called Ganondorf when he is human.But who knows I think OoT go first but thats my opinion not yours.

 

[Zemen]

Well, if you believe that Ganondorf and Ganon are not two seperate beings, then everyone should be a CT placer. The only way for Ganon/dorf to be in any later games after WW/TP, there would have to have been a new Ganondorf born. The only game that makes this plausible is FSA and due to obvious connections for ALTTP (which is obviously connected to FSA) being on the CT, the only logical place to put any game with Ganon/dorf in it is on the CT.

 

[Pinecove]

^That's backwards logic.

ALttP is not confirmed to be on the CT, and there are some theorists who put FSA and ALttP on separate timelines. In all truth, that doesn't count for anything.

 

[Zemen]

ALttP is not confirmed to be on the CT

Consistency wise, the CT is where it would make the most sense and the whole point of the timeline is to make one that makes the most sense.

and there are some theorists who put FSA and ALttP on separate timelines.

There are also people who put ALTTP before OoT but that doesn't make it possible. I agree that FSA-ALTTP is not 100% confirmed but there is VERY little to contradict it and A LOT to support it. It makes the most sense, which is what every timeline tries to do (it tries to make the most sense).

The way you argued that is kind of backwards because I could just throw out any placement for FSA (other than the 100% obviously wrong) and say that it's possible. Saying that other people split up ALTTP and FSA is just stating an observation, not stating evidence against my argument. Like I said, just because some people put ALTTP before OoT doesn't make it a real possibility, not that I'm saying FSA and ALTTP seperate isn't a possibility, I'm just saying that the most obvious, hinted towards, intent driven place for FSA is before ALTTP and to say otherwise is the epitome of being a devil's advocate. Just proposing a counter argument for the sake of arguing.

Do you believe that FSA goes before ALTTP?

I believe you do put FSA before ALTTP because you phrased your sentence as "some people" place the games separately. If it were you then you probably would have said "I personally place FSA separately from ALTTP."

Do you believe that ALTTP goes on the CT?

Again, I believe you do put ALTTP on the CT because rather than stating where you personally place it, you stated that it's just not confirmed on the CT. Most theorists, when arguing with another theorist, will state their own opinion, but your own opinion had nothing to do with where you, personally, place any of the games, just that "some people" place it differently than I stated.

With all of that in mind, I conclude that you have FSA-ALTTP on the CT.

If I'm right then why are you even arguing against me? There is no point in keeping a thread going just because you want to argue.

If I'm wrong, then please say so and actually give me your opinion of where FSA and ALTTP go rather than giving me options of what the timeline could be because that also defeats the purpose of the argument.

In retrospect, I could see where this post comes off as offensive but I assure you that everything I said was under calm judgement and was meant to progress this conversation if it was meant to be progressed. Sorry if you get offended by anything I stated.

 

[Linkette]

I think That Alttp is before Oot beacuse wouldn't the Master Sword be originally hidden in the Temple of time than Lost Woods? Also I looked on lots of timeline theories and OoT is the beginning.

 

[Zemen]

^Now you have me confused.

You just said that you think ALTTP is before OoT but then you stated that OoT is the beginning so which one is it?

 

[ironknuckle1]

I think That Alttp is before Oot beacuse wouldn't the Master Sword be originally hidden in the Temple of time than Lost Woods? Also I looked on lots of timeline theories and OoT is the beginning.

yes thats really confusing and it is also possible for MC to be in front

 

[Pinecove]

Again, I believe you do put ALTTP on the CT because rather than stating where you personally place it, you stated that it's just not confirmed on the CT. Most theorists, when arguing with another theorist, will state their own opinion, but your own opinion had nothing to do with where you, personally, place any of the games, just that "some people" place it differently than I stated.

I agree that ALttP is mot likely on the CT. I do not think it's the only place it can go however, and generally I'm trying to be open minded right now.

If I'm right then why are you even arguing against me? There is no point in keeping a thread going just because you want to argue.

Because nobody is 100% right. I'm here to prove that point.

Consistency wise, the CT is where it would make the most sense and the whole point of the timeline is to make one that makes the most sense.

I agree, but you can't state it as fact.

Do you believe that FSA goes before ALTTP?

I'm not sure.

If I'm wrong, then please say so and actually give me your opinion of where FSA and ALTTP go rather than giving me options of what the timeline could be because that also defeats the purpose of the argument.

If you want to debate something I don't have, you're going to have a hard time doing it. If you REALLY want me to argue contrary to you:

/TWW/PH-ST-TMC-FS/FSA-LoZ/AoL
OoT
\MM-TP-OoS/OoA-ALttP

In retrospect, I could see where this post comes off as offensive but I assure you that everything I said was under calm judgement and was meant to progress this conversation if it was meant to be progressed. Sorry if you get offended by anything I stated.

No prob. I'd be confused too if I weren't me then I came out of nowhere babbling on about a timeline which I don't have.