A ZD Timeline Project

[Zemen]

I'm still in favor of the order they were released. Having not actually played the game, my comments can be easily faulted, but I still put ALttP AFTER LoZ and AoL.

If you've never played the game then you should probably get some info on it before you start theorizing its placement on the timeline...

Both the Japanese manual and the American manual HIGHLY suggest that it is a prequel to LoZ/AoL.

According to Erimgard, the Japanese manual says "This time the stage is set a long time before the time when Link accomplished a feat..."

That obviously means that the game is set long before the time that Link accomplished something great. There were only two, directly connected games created before ALTTP which means that ALTTP must be talking about the Link from LoZ/AoL which means ALTTP would come before LoZ/AoL.

Also, the American manual calls Link and Zelda in ALTTP the predecessors of a previous Link and Zelda. Once again, there were only 2 games that are directly connected that were made before ALTTP which means that Link and Zelda could only be predecessors for Link and Zelda from LoZ/AoL which would, once again, put ALTTP before LoZ/AoL.

Go play the game.

 

[Hayzer]

If you've never played the game then you should probably get some info on it before you start theorizing its placement on the timeline...

Both the Japanese manual and the American manual HIGHLY suggest that it is a prequel to LoZ/AoL.

According to Erimgard, the Japanese manual says "This time the stage is set a long time before the time when Link accomplished a feat..."

That obviously means that the game is set long before the time that Link accomplished something great. There were only two, directly connected games created before ALTTP which means that ALTTP must be talking about the Link from LoZ/AoL which means ALTTP would come before LoZ/AoL.

Also, the American manual calls Link and Zelda in ALTTP the predecessors of a previous Link and Zelda. Once again, there were only 2 games that are directly connected that were made before ALTTP which means that Link and Zelda could only be predecessors for Link and Zelda from LoZ/AoL which would, once again, put ALTTP before LoZ/AoL.

Go play the game.

I would. Except that it takes money, which is something I don't have XD

But what's the status of the triforce in ALttP? Isn't it all together? That clearly contradicts the other two games, unless it splits in ALttP.

 

[MrMosley]

I would. Except that it takes money, which is something I don't have XD

But what's the status of the triforce in ALttP? Isn't it all together? That clearly contradicts the other two games, unless it splits in ALttP.

In ALttP, the Triforce is in the Sacred Realm, which is where its original home is. The BS of ALttP talks about Ganon going in there and wishing upon the Triforce. It doesn't split though, which I guess because during the Seal War there was no hero (or so I have heard). The Triforce grants his wish, turns the SR into the Dark World, and stays in there. Its held within the Pyramid at the end of the game. It stays in one piece, connected, through this entire backstory and game.

 

[Hayzer]

In ALttP, the Triforce is in the Sacred Realm, which is where its original home is. The BS of ALttP talks about Ganon going in there and wishing upon the Triforce. It doesn't split though, which I guess because during the Seal War there was no hero (or so I have heard). The Triforce grants his wish, turns the SR into the Dark World, and stays in there. Its held within the Pyramid at the end of the game. It stays in one piece, connected, through this entire backstory and game.

Well, if it stays together, it contradicts the other two Zeldas at the time, where the Triforce is broken, so it would have to take place after LoZ/AoL.

 

[MrMosley]

Well, if it stays together, it contradicts the other two Zeldas at the time, where the Triforce is broken, so it would have to take place after LoZ/AoL.

Not necessarily. At the time, the backstory told of the Triforce being created and how it rested in the Sacred Realm. All the way from that tale to the time of ALttP, the Triforce never left the Sacred Realm. In LoZ/AoL, it is in Hyrule. At that time, games that now come before ALttP like OoT and TP didn't exist, so the Triforce never left its home. Even after ALttP, the Triforce apparently was still there as order had been restored to the SR after Ganon's defeat.

So when you think about it, the Triforce had to move from the SR to Hyrule somehow, back then. As I said, it never left the SR before or during ALttP. In LoZ, it isn't in the SR anymore. Another reason ALttP is obviously a prequel.

 

[Erimgard]

The Seal War story doesn't mention a Hero, nor does it say there was no Hero. We'll get more into director intent when we start talking about OoT

Nothing about aLttP's ending implies that the Triforce left the purified Dark World/Sacred Realm.

In order for the AoL backstory to play out, Link would have to take the Triforce out of the Sacred Realm (seems like a dumb thing to do seeing as he knows that if it falls into the wrong hands all hell will break loose again). Then he would either have to die, and leave the Triforce in the hands of the Great King from AoL's backstory, or he would have to be the Great King.

Also, aLttP's Zelda would have to be the first Zelda, as the Japanese text describes the AoL Sleeping Zelda as "the first generation/founder" Zelda.

I would also still like to see my point addressed about the manual. The ending of it shows that it is meant to be told in present time "recently there have been strange occurrences blah blah blah". Yet, the game references LoZ in it.

If the whole manual is being told in the present, and about events in the future, then why does it say "at that time the King of Evil Ganon was born, the one who has threatened Hyrule"

The manual is not talking about the Seal War as the time when he "threatened Hyrule", because the Seal War hasn't been mentioned yet in the story. It's referring to an event that the reader should already know about: the original LoZ.

Thoughts?

 

[MrMosley]

One big thing I would like to point out is that Nintendo said once (Miyamoto actually), that they have a document that details how all of the games fit together. A lot of people think that this document only shows what is currently known about the series. However, the document could very well have information that makes the games connect and makes sense, yet we do not know of that information yet. Which brings me to your quote, Erimgard.

In order for the AoL backstory to play out, Link would have to take the Triforce out of the Sacred Realm (seems like a dumb thing to do seeing as he knows that if it falls into the wrong hands all hell will break loose again). Then he would either have to die, and leave the Triforce in the hands of the Great King from AoL's backstory, or he would have to be the Great King.

What I'm thinking is that we know that Ganondorf once tried to steal the Triforce from the SR (OoT). He did so, and it split. It seems to me that this same event would make sense to occur between the events of ALttP and LoZ. We do not know how Ganon came back in LoZ, nor do we know why the Triforce is not one unit. What can be suggested is that Ganon found it and it split again. It would make sense, considering the Triforce of Wisdom is withing Zelda (which she split and hid), and Ganon has the Triforce of Power. We do not know why the Triforce of Courage did not go in a hero, or even if it did. We find out though, that it was loose from the other two, and safely kept in the Great Palace in AoL. That is my theory of what occured before LoZ.

If the whole manual is being told in the present, and about events in the future, then why does it say "at that time the King of Evil Ganon was born, the one who has threatened Hyrule"

That whole quote still seems to be talking in present terms. Correct me if I'm wrong about how you are presenting that quote, but it says "the one who has threatened Hyrule" which specifies a past event, but does not say whether it means distant or recent past. It can be talking about an event taking place at that very point in time, which is what I believe it implies. The rest of the quote from the manual might help for me to figure out where your going with that one, but Ganon was surely threatening Hyrule from the beginning of ALttP.

 

[Erimgard]

What I'm thinking is that we know that Ganondorf once tried to steal the Triforce from the SR (OoT).

Caleb requested that we only talk about the games at hand as he mentions them. Thus, you cannot reference OoT yet.

He did so, and it split. It seems to me that this same event would make sense to occur between the events of ALttP and LoZ. We do not know how Ganon came back in LoZ, nor do we know why the Triforce is not one unit. What can be suggested is that Ganon found it and it split again. It would make sense, considering the Triforce of Wisdom is withing Zelda (which she split and hid), and Ganon has the Triforce of Power. We do not know why the Triforce of Courage did not go in a hero, or even if it did. We find out though, that it was loose from the other two, and safely kept in the Great Palace in AoL. That is my theory of what occured before LoZ.

Except the manual doesn't say it was just split up like that. The manual says it was in the possession of a Great King who used it to maintain the peace in Hyrule. Kinda hard for the King to maintain peace with the Triforce when he doesn't have it.



That whole quote still seems to be talking in present terms. Correct me if I'm wrong about how you are presenting that quote, but it says "the one who has threatened Hyrule" which specifies a past event, but does not say whether it means distant or recent past. It can be talking about an event taking place at that very point in time, which is what I believe it implies. The rest of the quote from the manual might help for me to figure out where your going with that one, but Ganon was surely threatening Hyrule from the beginning of ALttP.[/QUOTE]

 

[MrMosley]

Except the manual doesn't say it was just split up like that. The manual says it was in the possession of a Great King who used it to maintain the peace in Hyrule. Kinda hard for the King to maintain peace with the Triforce when he doesn't have it.

In that case, I'll go with my original theory and say that after ALttP, the Triforce was mysteriously brought out of the SR. There are other games which imply this, which we will come to later on in the thread. But I just want to note that my original theory was that it was brought out of the SR some time after ALttP as a single unit. In my opinion, this would have been done as a precaution. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering its a lot harder to get to the SR than to just break into Hyrule Castle or whenever and steal it if one wanted to, but perhaps they had more security in Hyrule itself.

 

[Erimgard]

Lol, which explains why, according to the Japanese manual, Ganon was able to "snatch the Triforce of Power" with "a small army corps"

Gotta love Hylian security

 

[angelkid]

Hey dont diss Hylian security, the bank owner in MM seems alright .
It seems that we there is a DEFFINATE majority saying ALttP comes first.
Oh and Skull_Kid, every other Name of a Zelda game (accept arguable The Legend of Zelda) has been a big clue as to some main part of the storyline. There is evidence enough to say that A Link to the Past certainly suggests it was in the past, and correct me if I am wrong but I have heard that some game members say that the tittle was meant to hint that the game was a prequeal.

 

[Kazumi]

I don't post here much but.. I believe we can say that ALttP comes before LoZ/AoL. If we look at the original box. It clearly states that the Link and Zelda in ALttP come before the Link and Zelda in LoZ/AoL. The North American box says that the game comes before LoZ/AoL. But since the GBA ALttP is now Canon, we need to consider the possibility of ALttP coming AFTER LoZ/AoL. The NA Box says that Link and Zelda come before the Link and Zelda in ALttP. But that was completely removed for the GBA Box.

I don't think that ALttP was intended to come before LoZ/AoL. But Nintendo of America ran away with the idea and called it A Link to the Past and said the things on the back of the box. But for the GBA release they changed this. So I'm going to have to go with Erimgard and say that it comes after LoZ/AoL.

 

[Hayzer]

Screw the dang box.

Things are retconned in series' many times. Miyamoto retconned the original box of ALttP when he made his infamous quote. What the maker says goes.

How many times have certain comic or game characters been killed yet, their deaths are retconned and they become alive again. The first four issues of StH are retconned by issues printed 10 years later.

If Miyamoto would've stated his quote before the box was released, then I would believe the box. But since he said it after, he automatically screwed the box.

Plus, A Link to the Past wasn't the original title, so don't use that as the excuse. Triforce of the Gods was the original, and says nothing about the game's placement.

 

[MrMosley]

Screw the dang box. Things are retconned in series' many times. Miyamoto retconned the original box of ALttP when he made his infamous quote. What the maker says goes.

Miyamoto has been wrong before about the timeline. If you asked him now what it was he likely wouldn't be able to tell you. Miyamoto has stated himself that he is more into the gameplay aspect rather than the storyline or timeline. That is what Aonuma is in charge of these days. And Miyamoto making that quote, even though it is a developer quote, still doesn't make sense in many ways which have been mentioned above. Its just like if Miyamoto came out and randomly said WW was the first Zelda game in the series. No one in their right mind would believe something like that "just because Miyamoto said so". 99% of the time, you have to take examples in the game and from the game into consideration or you will get no where.

Plus, A Link to the Past wasn't the original title, so don't use that as the excuse. Triforce of the Gods was the original, and says nothing about the game's placement.

Triforce of the Gods does too help in placing the game. The biggest known thing about ALttP is that it gives a backstory of Ganon and the Triforce. Triforce of the Gods was its title because that is what the game revolves around. Just like Ocarina of Time revolved around that item, and just as Twilight Princess was named so because of Midna, ALttP (or Triforce of the Gods in this case), was named so because it told the history of and revolved primarily around the Triforce and how Ganon had used it to transform the Sacred Realm into the Dark World.

 

[Raven]

it's so obvious Alttp goes before the other two, i'll try and explain my thinking. The original title triforce of the gods gives us our first hint, it was supposed to reveal the story of the triforce (through the game itself) and it's importance in the series. I know we haven't gotten around to OoT yet in this dicussion but triforce of the gods was supposed to do what they later achived with OoT... explain the story of what happened to the triforce originally, however there was backstory in Alttp and this created room for even older legends of zelda.