GerudoDesert
I love being gay.
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- Nov 28, 2009
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- Bel Air, Maryland
Is it just me or are the 2D games much harder than the 3D ones? Ex; A Link to the Past v. Ocarina of Time
General Classic 2d v. 3d?
- Thread starter GerudoDesert
- Start date
Yes, they are harder... I beat all the 3D Zelda games, all of them, but I can't even reach the bombs in the original. Zelda II wasn't as hard, I beat the first two dungeons (or temples for you AoL fans) and then I got bored. I love Four Swords Adventures, and it's challenging, but that game isn't as hard as the first or second game.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2010
They are indeed harder. I'm playing through ALttP at the moment and it is harder than a lot of other Zelda Games. Then again though, I'm not sure whether PH and ST are to be counted as 2D games, because they use a top down view. I'd say they're moer 2.5D.
GerudoDesert
I love being gay.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2009
- Location
- Bel Air, Maryland
It seems like 2D games are a lot easier but once you start playing, they aren't. I think it is the top-down view.
KratosFan
JUDGEMENT!
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2010
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- Seattle, WA
Well, the 3D games are more puzzle centric, because in the 3D games, you have much more control over Link, making the battles fairly easy. So instead of tossing in a bunch of enemies, they just made the puzzles actually somewhat difficult.
Whereas in the 2D games, the combat was more centric. Almost every single room in the entire first game had at least 3 enemies (unless you do the glitch where you leave one enemy alive, and the following rooms only have one enemy). Most 2D games had to be like this, because with an overhead view, there weren't really to many complex things they could do, other than maybe sliding ice puzzles (which I hate with a passion).
Whereas in the 2D games, the combat was more centric. Almost every single room in the entire first game had at least 3 enemies (unless you do the glitch where you leave one enemy alive, and the following rooms only have one enemy). Most 2D games had to be like this, because with an overhead view, there weren't really to many complex things they could do, other than maybe sliding ice puzzles (which I hate with a passion).
Sarianae
Infinite Dreamer
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- Nov 21, 2010
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- Storybrooke, Maine
The 2D games are certainly tougher. Perhaps the top-down view plays a part...for example no Z-targetting of enemies, you just have to aim your swings and bows properly. Granted the 2D titles wouldn't require it in the same way that 3D titles would, but it still makes a difference in how easily you can accurately hit enemies.
I really don't think this is the main difference however. I think a lot of the difficulty is accredited to other things:
#1) Enemy damage is a lot higher. In ALttP overworld enemies will knock out a full heart of health if they hit you twice. It's a lot easier to die if you aren't careful. In 3D titles, for the most part you can be as careless as you want as you run around and you probably won't die. The cave in Faron Woods in TP for example, infested with keese and Deku Babas, I've ran through it before without taking care to avoid hitting any enemies as I run past, and I think the most health I lost after I came out of it was perhaps 3/4 of a heart. You couldn't get away with running around with such carelessness in ALttP without being punished.
#2) Less heart containers! Less to collect means they're scarcer and harder to find. Additionally, the maximum you can receive is usually 14 hearts or so, not a whopping 20. When having less health is coupled with higher damage dealt by enemies, it makes for more threatening difficulty, especially in dungeons.
#3) Less bottles, or so I believe. I've been playing through OoS and though I'm nearing the end, I'm still yet to see even a single empty bottle. Fairies for back up become a no-go with that, and couple that with more enduring bosses, it becomes tough. And while there is potion/medicine, it has more restrictions to get. in NES LoZ, only the first time you buy red medicine for a dungeon do you get to use it twice. Use it once and it will turn into blue medicine that you can use once more in that dungeon...unless you die after using it! If you go back to re-buy it a second time for the same dungeon, it will allow you to use it twice no longer...once you use it, instead of becoming blue medicine that can be used again, it will revert to being the letter you gave the old lady originally to be allowed to buy medicine. Basically, what this means is that you have only "one shot" to get through the dungeon with two helpings of medicine. If you screw it up, you'll be allowed no more than one helping of medicine for every subsequent attempt after that! The pressure is ON! It would sound like not too difficult a deal to get through a dungeon with two helpings of medicine on your first try but.....I remember the 6th and 8th dungeons (Dragon and Lion) in LoZ gave me a LOT of trouble. Those rooms with the Darknuts and Wizzrobes and Like-Likes all clustered together....and those rooms with eight or so red and blue darknuts....ugghhh tough times.
#4) As I mentioned above, the bosses are more enduring. They are not as easy to defeat, and it takes a longer amount of time to do so. Additionally, often times their blows are more difficult to avoid than they are in 3D Zelda. Add that ontop of the above mentioned factors, and it makes for a legitimately tougher fight. You really have to figure out how to master your technique for avoiding taking damage while effectively dealing it (don't even get me started on Moldorm
) because let me tell you something, you are not going to get through the fight by sword spamming and fluking as you might perhaps get away with sometimes in 3D Zelda. And while it's not uncommon to defeat 3D bosses on your first try, with 2-D bosses, you really have to work your way up to defeating them, trying again and again until you perfect your technique and master the battle. 3D Zelda often times really doesn't require you to build up the same level of mastery in order to pass it.
#5) Save points in dungeons. In 3D Zelda, for the most part if you die, it's not all that difficult to get back to the point you were at, even with respawned enemies. But 2D Zelda features tougher rooms to manage getting past without losing a lot of health; having to repass those rooms again becomes a problem (I present to you the rooms with eight darknuts in them in original LoZ) especially on the way to a boss! Sometimes you die before you can even make it to the boss door! Forget stocking up on health for the boss battle, by the time you get there, you might only have half a heart of health left! In 3D Zelda, boss rooms usually have easy access; for example in The Wind Waker, you have the Warp Pots that will take you directly to the door. In Ocarina of Time, the boss doors are usually set up to be in places that you can immediately reach upon entering the dungeon, as in the Forest Temple, the Fire Temple, the Water Temple, etc. And lets not forget, usually 3D Zelda bosses have a plentiful item restock in front of the door, including fairies, to assure that you are at full health...not so with 2D Zelda. In fact, I may as well mention you have less stock of everything to begin with...less bombs, less arrows...you're definitely not allowed 100 bombs or arrows on you, that's for sure (although this is disputable with arrow-rupee tradeoff, but even then you have to watch how many rupees you are willing to use on arrows...)
I should also mention that I hear this is particularly bad in AoL, as every time you die in the overworld, you end up back in the original room at the start where Zelda is sleeping. You might not even make it to the dungeon in the first place! :S
So certainly, 2D games have tended to be harder. However, these factors are not particularly unique to 2D titles! What I mean is that if they wanted to, Nintendo could take these factors and apply them to 3D Zelda as well; it just so coincided that when the series evolved into 3D, these difficulty factors were forsaken for easier accessibility. If Nintendo changed their mind, I believe it would certainly be possible for them to implement these factors in a 3D Zelda title as well.
We'll see how Skyward Sword fairs when it comes out.
I really don't think this is the main difference however. I think a lot of the difficulty is accredited to other things:
#1) Enemy damage is a lot higher. In ALttP overworld enemies will knock out a full heart of health if they hit you twice. It's a lot easier to die if you aren't careful. In 3D titles, for the most part you can be as careless as you want as you run around and you probably won't die. The cave in Faron Woods in TP for example, infested with keese and Deku Babas, I've ran through it before without taking care to avoid hitting any enemies as I run past, and I think the most health I lost after I came out of it was perhaps 3/4 of a heart. You couldn't get away with running around with such carelessness in ALttP without being punished.
#2) Less heart containers! Less to collect means they're scarcer and harder to find. Additionally, the maximum you can receive is usually 14 hearts or so, not a whopping 20. When having less health is coupled with higher damage dealt by enemies, it makes for more threatening difficulty, especially in dungeons.
#3) Less bottles, or so I believe. I've been playing through OoS and though I'm nearing the end, I'm still yet to see even a single empty bottle. Fairies for back up become a no-go with that, and couple that with more enduring bosses, it becomes tough. And while there is potion/medicine, it has more restrictions to get. in NES LoZ, only the first time you buy red medicine for a dungeon do you get to use it twice. Use it once and it will turn into blue medicine that you can use once more in that dungeon...unless you die after using it! If you go back to re-buy it a second time for the same dungeon, it will allow you to use it twice no longer...once you use it, instead of becoming blue medicine that can be used again, it will revert to being the letter you gave the old lady originally to be allowed to buy medicine. Basically, what this means is that you have only "one shot" to get through the dungeon with two helpings of medicine. If you screw it up, you'll be allowed no more than one helping of medicine for every subsequent attempt after that! The pressure is ON! It would sound like not too difficult a deal to get through a dungeon with two helpings of medicine on your first try but.....I remember the 6th and 8th dungeons (Dragon and Lion) in LoZ gave me a LOT of trouble. Those rooms with the Darknuts and Wizzrobes and Like-Likes all clustered together....and those rooms with eight or so red and blue darknuts....ugghhh tough times.
#4) As I mentioned above, the bosses are more enduring. They are not as easy to defeat, and it takes a longer amount of time to do so. Additionally, often times their blows are more difficult to avoid than they are in 3D Zelda. Add that ontop of the above mentioned factors, and it makes for a legitimately tougher fight. You really have to figure out how to master your technique for avoiding taking damage while effectively dealing it (don't even get me started on Moldorm
) because let me tell you something, you are not going to get through the fight by sword spamming and fluking as you might perhaps get away with sometimes in 3D Zelda. And while it's not uncommon to defeat 3D bosses on your first try, with 2-D bosses, you really have to work your way up to defeating them, trying again and again until you perfect your technique and master the battle. 3D Zelda often times really doesn't require you to build up the same level of mastery in order to pass it.#5) Save points in dungeons. In 3D Zelda, for the most part if you die, it's not all that difficult to get back to the point you were at, even with respawned enemies. But 2D Zelda features tougher rooms to manage getting past without losing a lot of health; having to repass those rooms again becomes a problem (I present to you the rooms with eight darknuts in them in original LoZ) especially on the way to a boss! Sometimes you die before you can even make it to the boss door! Forget stocking up on health for the boss battle, by the time you get there, you might only have half a heart of health left! In 3D Zelda, boss rooms usually have easy access; for example in The Wind Waker, you have the Warp Pots that will take you directly to the door. In Ocarina of Time, the boss doors are usually set up to be in places that you can immediately reach upon entering the dungeon, as in the Forest Temple, the Fire Temple, the Water Temple, etc. And lets not forget, usually 3D Zelda bosses have a plentiful item restock in front of the door, including fairies, to assure that you are at full health...not so with 2D Zelda. In fact, I may as well mention you have less stock of everything to begin with...less bombs, less arrows...you're definitely not allowed 100 bombs or arrows on you, that's for sure (although this is disputable with arrow-rupee tradeoff, but even then you have to watch how many rupees you are willing to use on arrows...)
I should also mention that I hear this is particularly bad in AoL, as every time you die in the overworld, you end up back in the original room at the start where Zelda is sleeping. You might not even make it to the dungeon in the first place! :S
So certainly, 2D games have tended to be harder. However, these factors are not particularly unique to 2D titles! What I mean is that if they wanted to, Nintendo could take these factors and apply them to 3D Zelda as well; it just so coincided that when the series evolved into 3D, these difficulty factors were forsaken for easier accessibility. If Nintendo changed their mind, I believe it would certainly be possible for them to implement these factors in a 3D Zelda title as well.
We'll see how Skyward Sword fairs when it comes out.
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It seems Sarianae's post covered most of my thoughts about 2D vs. 3D, but I will elaborate on my own personal opinions.
One big change that was incorporated in Ocarina of Time was the new targeting feature. Now, you could stay locked on to enemies and deflect their attacks easier than ever before. It also made long ranged weapons easier to use, simply because you could target enemies now.
The movement in 2D games also made them a bit harder. It was more difficult to dodge enemy attacks, because you could go up and down, and left and right. In 3D games, there's a whole new plain of movement; left and right; forward and back, up and down (in some cases); and diagonally. The control pads for most 2D games limited diagonal movement greatly.
I also have to agree with these two points: The enemies were harder, dealt more damage, and were stronger; and save points were nonexistent in some cases such as AoL. The lack of available save points certainly made a game more frustrating, seeing as once you passed a point, if you died, you might have to repeat that whole point again. The enemies were a big difference, as well. For example, if you compare some strong enemies from Adventure of Link and Twilight Princess, you'd come to find out that very few enemies from TP (if any at all) dealt +1 heart damage, whereas in AoL, many dealt multiple heart damage.
I think the transition and evolution of the gaming industry has a part in the differences between 2D and 3D games, too. Most games are quite different now that they used to be. Overall, my opinion is that many of the 2D games are harder than most of the 3D games.
One big change that was incorporated in Ocarina of Time was the new targeting feature. Now, you could stay locked on to enemies and deflect their attacks easier than ever before. It also made long ranged weapons easier to use, simply because you could target enemies now.
The movement in 2D games also made them a bit harder. It was more difficult to dodge enemy attacks, because you could go up and down, and left and right. In 3D games, there's a whole new plain of movement; left and right; forward and back, up and down (in some cases); and diagonally. The control pads for most 2D games limited diagonal movement greatly.
I also have to agree with these two points: The enemies were harder, dealt more damage, and were stronger; and save points were nonexistent in some cases such as AoL. The lack of available save points certainly made a game more frustrating, seeing as once you passed a point, if you died, you might have to repeat that whole point again. The enemies were a big difference, as well. For example, if you compare some strong enemies from Adventure of Link and Twilight Princess, you'd come to find out that very few enemies from TP (if any at all) dealt +1 heart damage, whereas in AoL, many dealt multiple heart damage.
I think the transition and evolution of the gaming industry has a part in the differences between 2D and 3D games, too. Most games are quite different now that they used to be. Overall, my opinion is that many of the 2D games are harder than most of the 3D games.
gabesawakening
Hi Fwiends!
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2011
I say 2d is harder but 3d is funner!
LolGames4U
Viceroy of Area 11
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- USA
It seems to me that most older games are harder than newer games, with exceptions, of course. The original Super Mario Bros. is MUCH harder than Super Mario Galaxy, per se, and I absolutley think that's also the case with Zelda games. I can barely make it 5 minutes into Zelda II without getting game over! 
El Bagu
Wannabe Mr. 1-8-1
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- Jul 5, 2008
- Location
- In Woods. N of River!
This is the first time I notice that someone share my opinion about AoL, it´s not very hard and I do think that LoZ is a lot more difficult (Why is my opinion so rare?). But what I can´t understand is how one could consider AoL a boring game It´s a MASTERPIECE
If I should mention something about the main question asked in this thread. My answer depend on what is considered difficult. I did die a lot more often playing AlttP but figuring out some ways to continue my quest (I got stuck) in OoT was a lot harder if I remember things correctly. You need more skill to beat the 2D games I guess but I´m not so sure which require most intelligence.
ShaneOMac713
The Seal has been Broken
- Joined
- May 18, 2011
- Location
- The Temple of Time
All my 3D LoZ games I have played I have beaten or helped my mom beat it but all my 2D LoZ games are harder and I can't beat them and my parents can't even beat them unless they play for days.
Z
zEmini
Guest
None of the 3D games were very hard expect for Majora's Mask.
I can't remember the 2D games being difficult at all as well. LoZ was kinda a ***** when you lost your shield to a Like Like, but that was about it.
I can't remember the 2D games being difficult at all as well. LoZ was kinda a ***** when you lost your shield to a Like Like, but that was about it.
