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2020 U.S. Presidential Election Thread

Terminus

If I was a wizard this wouldn't be happening to me
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And as for why no patriotic American does anything about the camps. I imagine because they and their families are not victims of it. I believe it is Mexicans mainly in the camps just like it is foreigners that America has been killing in other lands. People may complain of it but they don't really care enough so long as it's not what they consider to be their own people.
There was one guy who tried to sabotage equipment and was murdered by police. Small wonder that people aren't flocking the concentration camps in droves when the only person to do so so far was killed and branded a terrorist.
 

Kirino

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Here's a hint... JOBS! Here's another.... MORE JOBS!
END WARS
IMPROVE SCHOOLS
OVERHAUL INFRASTRUCTURE
ADDRESS THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC
LOWER THE NATIONAL DEBT
INNER CITY CRIME
AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE THAT ACTUALLY WORKS...

OH WAIT! Trump has mentioned all those things. But not only that... HE'S ACTUALLY DEALT WITH SOME OF THEM!

Name one thing that any of the democrat candidates have mentioned that has anything to do with what people ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT!
Let’s look at one presidential candidate, Bernie Sanders, as an example: he supports universal healthcare, student loan debt forgiveness, raising taxes on the wealthy, a living wage, a federal jobs guarantee, a trillion dollar infrastructure bill, free college, and paid family leave. He also advocates less military spending and intervention abroad, a Green New Deal to combat climate change, and supports various forms of gun control. Among many other policies, most of which have been to some extent been advanced by other Democratic candidates as well.

Is affordable healthcare not an issue that people care about? Or student loan debt? Or higher wages, or more jobs, or fixing infrastructure, or increased access to higher education, or less military involvement abroad? Many of these are the issues that you yourself raised. And even the others, such as climate change and gun control, are certainly important issues among significant sectors of the population, even if you yourself are unconcerned about them. He’s at least discussed or made proposals about all the other issues you listed.

I already know what your response is going to be: that these policies are all unworkable or unrealistic or ineffective, that there’s no money to pay for them, etc. If that’s your opinion, then that’s fine, though I would note how popular many of these policies are, as well as how high Bernie’s personal favorability rating is. But that’s irrelevant to the fact that Bernie is very clearly articulating proposals and thoughts regarding issues that people do care about, as are the other candidates, to a greater or lesser extent. Thus, your grand challenge, to name one thing that Democratic candidates have mentioned that people care about, which was presumably supposed to be difficult, actually turned out to be trivially easy.

Meanwhile, despite your praising Trump for his addressing these issues, it’s not clear that he really has, and in some cases, quite the opposite. Instead of lowering the national debt, it’s an objective fact that he’s raised it significantly, in large part due to the tax cuts. Likewise, the healthcare bill he pushed for was widely unpopular and failed to pass. And it’s been a while since I’ve heard him discuss infrastructure, where I don’t see much progress having been made.

The point of this response isn’t necessarily to defend Bernie and attack Trump, but to make a broader point. If you want to argue that the Democratic party has gone too far left, or is too concerned with appeasing its base, or something like that, and will therefore have difficulty winning elections, then whatever. But when you start making ridiculous and hyperbolic claims to the effect that no Democratic candidate has discussed anything that people care about, and that the Democratic party is finished, you look hyper-partisan to the point of being unhinged from reality.

dissolving the nations borders
Nobody has proposed this.

promising to not just repeal tax breaks but to raise taxes to well beyond 70%
The proposal is to raise the top marginal tax rate to 70%, which has historical precedent (it used to be 91% under Eisenhower) and is mainstream thought among economists. Moreover, raising taxes on the wealthy is highly popular.
 

Castle

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he supports universal healthcare
You mean like Obama Care? The so-called "Affordable" Care Act. I thought we already had that. It didn't work. Now we're expected to believe that the next attempt at socialized medicine will work as advertised? Universal healthcare isn't the answer to the high cost of healthcare problem anyway. I already get money taken out of my hard earned paycheck for a service I refuse to use, even though I could use it right now. I intent to actually work instead.

I'm not the only taxpayer who doesn't want to foot the bill for another dysfunctional social program.

student loan debt forgiveness
Will cost tax payers billions. Unless the plan is to force colleges and universities to pay back the students they scammed which I'm all for. Somehow I doubt that's what these candidates have in mind.

raising taxes on the wealthy
Yeah. Like that'll ever happen. Define "wealthy" anyway. If it's really the 1% whose individual networths are roughly the equivalent of the GDP of some developed nations, then fine. But more likely it'll be a massive tax on small business owners which will break the economy and put everyone out of work. Or just a massive tax on everyone because democrats, especially socialists, love to tax the bejezus out of everyone.

a living wage
This is already failed economics. Wages are actually pretty high on their own right now, so the living wage argument doesn't carry as much weight as it did in the last election since Trump fixed the economy. Forcing a high federal minimum wage will just put companies out of business and people out of work.

a federal jobs guarantee
Shovel ready jobs are a failed economic policy. This has been proven time and time again. People voted for Trump because he said he would reduce the size of the federal government and he has. Now Bernie wants to expand it again. Obviously a monsterously large government that pays millions of bureaucrats to keep seats warm and waste taxpayer money isn't what the majority of Americans want.

a trillion dollar infrastructure bill
Can't argue much against this. If there's anything worth spending trillions of taxpayer dollars on, it's infrastructure. Wait. Did I say trillions? I meant billions. Because it shouldn't cost trillions of dollars if you just know how to spend money sensibly. And governments have no idea how to spend other people's money. Especially socialists. I'll take the successful private businessman over the career politicians when it comes to spending my money.

free college
At taxpayer expense? There goes more trillions down the drain. So wait. Not only are we going to make tax payers reimburse students and the colleges that ripped them off for hundreds of billions of dollars in worthless tuitions, but we're also going to make taxpayers pay for trillions of dollars worth of free college for everyone for now and into the forseeable future.

Remind me. Who is supposed to be paying for all this again and how?

Nevermind that this would cheapen the quality and value of a college education even more than it is now. Want proof? Just look at this nation's public school system.

paid family leave
Taxpayers again? Or are we forcing small businesses to foot the bill for this again too? Either way you either have insane taxes or massive unemployment.

He also advocates less military spending and intervention abroad
So did Obama. Forgive me if I just don't take any career politician at their word when they say they'll stop funding the military industrial complex only for realsies this time. Besides, Trump has already accomplished the latter while simultaneously making tremendous victories in our ongoing foreign military conflicts. But while less military intervention is something most Americans can agree on, military spending is a largely partisan issue. Our military needs sufficient spending for the sake of national security. Cutting funding to our military is a catastrophically bad idea.

Green New Deal to combat climate change
The Green New Deal proposals aren't just ridiculous. They're straight up insanity. And this notion that climate change is going to be the end of the world as we know it is a farce. Sorry, but sane people aren't going to vote to give up their steakburgers, agree to ration electrical power for the rest of their lives, and surrender their motor vehicles while actors and musicians and politicians and ceos jet around to their award ceremonies in private planes just because they all keep insisting that the world is going to be underwater next week... any day now.

supports various forms of gun control
Trump supports the second amendment and it got him elected over a candidate that aggressively wanted gun control. Gun control is a HIGHLY partisan issue. I'm willing to bet that it is not as big an issue with most voters as the elitists want it to be. More people are more concerned with keeping their right to bear arms against politicians and other elitists who insist that it be taken away from them. Another failed position.

Among many other policies, most of which have been to some extent been advanced by other Democratic candidates as well.
And they are all terrible TERRIBLE unworkable ideas that do more harm than good (if any good at all) and will get exactly none of these candidates elected.

I already know what your response is going to be: that these policies are all unworkable or unrealistic or ineffective, that there’s no money to pay for them, etc.
Well, you're not wrong.

though I would note how popular many of these policies are, as well as how high Bernie’s personal favorability rating is.
Popularity and favorability are highly relative; the numerical degree to which is largely determined through polling and we all know just how accurate polls can be if the results of the last presidential election are any indication.

There is no doubt that Bermie is popular, though he is popular with the wrong crowd and for all the wrong reasons. Sanders is a straight up socialist demagogue that's popular with the naive and idealistic. FWIW, I often wonder that if he had been the democratic candidate to go up against Trump, he might have won or at least done better. But I don't think that is the case now. Since the last election, people have had time to witness how socialism fails and how a properly functioning capitalist economy happens to work just fine after all. Besides, we tried socialism under Obama. It didn't do us any good. Bernie might have stood a chance of making it back when socialism was getting a bit mainstream but his is still a small base and Trump's supporters and his electorate at large are far too energized and running high off a strong economy to give socialism another chance. Socialism is at its most appealing when the economy is in the gutter. But it's not anymore so people are going to be less inclined to fix what ain't broke or even recognize it as an issue since all people can see are their paychecks with quarterly raises, low gas prices, low taxes, high home value and generally affordable living.

Thus, your grand challenge, to name one thing that Democratic candidates have mentioned that people care about, which was presumably supposed to be difficult, actually turned out to be trivially easy.
Hey. I'm not denying that there are voters out there who find the stuff that the democrat candidates are spouting appealing. I'm just saying that it isn't enough to comprise a majority because the majority of Americans are concerned about other matters.

Instead of lowering the national debt, it’s an objective fact that he’s raised it significantly
No he didn't. Congress raised it significantly. It is congress' job to set the annual budget, after all. Remember, there was even a big kurfuffel over Trump shutting down the government to try and prevent congress from giving him such an insane budget to pass. After which Trump reluctantly and begrudgingly signed it anyway because congress wouldn't budge.

Getting congress to agree to not spend insane sums of other people's money is one of the hardest challenges a president will face. This is one of the biggest problems with governments of all kinds, all over. And Trump's congress is extremely partisan. They'll never agree on anything.

in large part due to the tax cuts
Trump and millions of voters just thought that the average American should catch a break for once. Heaven forbid, right? Of course the deficit wouldn't have continued to balloon if congress had bothered to spend a few less trillion dollars this time. On his own, however, and through a variety of means, Trump has significantly cut spending all across government.

Likewise, the healthcare bill he pushed for was widely unpopular and failed to pass.
It wasn't his but he did endorse it. I have no allusions that it would have worked especially given the numbskulls who authored it. Sometimes I wonder if Trump expected it to fail.

And it’s been a while since I’ve heard him discuss infrastructure
He brings it up from time to time but no actual progress has been made. Of course, it might if we had a functioning congress.

CONGRATULATIONS!! You found the two major things the Trump administration has left undone and they are his biggest challenges by far. But I dare any modern candidate to accomplish as much as Trump has in his first three years. What he's managed to accomplish already puts the vast majority of presidents to shame.

I would be disappointed if his campaign doesn't mention these issues when it comes time for him to jump in though. The sad fact is that these two matters alone will require a working congress. That is to say, a congress where the entire majority of the house of representatives isn't solely obsessed with carrying out an endless series of coup attempts against a duly elected president to the exclusion of all else. Trump already had to fight tooth and nail to get funding for the border wall. That was just a few billion dollars. An infrastructure bill and an overhaul of the nation's private insurance industry aren't something he can sign into existence with a pen and a supreme court victory. They require the participation of congress.

If you want to argue that the Democratic party has gone too far left, or is too concerned with appeasing its base, or something like that, and will therefore have difficulty winning elections, then whatever.
That's actually exactly what I'm saying.

But when you start making ridiculous and hyperbolic claims to the effect that no Democratic candidate has discussed anything that people care about, and that the Democratic party is finished, you look hyper-partisan to the point of being unhinged from reality.
Hyperbole or not, the claims are in no ways ridiculous. Sorry, but the stuff that the country's only remaining "democrats" care about are what amounts to nonsense to the rest of the nation at best, threats to their life, liberty and happiness at worst. And as I have stated previously, these "liberals" calling themselves "democrats" are anything but. Liberals do not advocate for slander, censorship and violence against people who are innocently ideologically opposed to them. Democrats do not spend their every waking moment attempting to overturn the results of a democratic election.

If this means I am hyper-partisan, then fine. I am hyper opposed to the political left's nonsense, after all. Don't think for a second that this makes me a "republican," however. And it's rich to accuse me of being unhinged from reality when these faux-liberal democrats are the ones who keep up with the insanity of advocating and taking up positions that will only ever continue to fail for them.

The greatest hope is that the democratic party is finished. At least, the "democratic" party as the monstrosity that it is at the moment. As I have stated previously, the current state of the DNC is - to use the term - deplorable. They are out of control and so is whatever is left of their base. I want actual liberals back in the White House and in congress. Heck, give me the party of Kennedy back! Warts and all! Jeeze, I'll even take 90s era democrats over today's. Anything but what we've got now. Whatever we got now, this country can't put up with it much longer.

And if it were republicans and conservatives with these issues as there have been in the past, I'd be saying the same thing. And it's not like the GOP are a bunch of perfect little innocents anyway. Oh, I've got plenty of bones to pick with them as well.

Like him or not, Trump is effective. Even if you are the sort who is inclined to believe that this dude is corrupt as all get out, a Russian minion, literally Hitler or whatever nonsense, the guy is at the very least the wrench this country has desperately needed in its political system for a looong time now. Because maintaining the political and societal status quo would be even worse, or no better if you are so inclined. This country was headed in a bad way before he showed up and so far there have been no other answers or more preferable alternatives. Is Trump a perfect solution? HELL NO. But our society and our government is all sorts of broken and the healing process was never going to be painless. The alternative of letting it all fester and rot is far worse, however. And none of these democrat candidates are offering up any solutions. Just more of the same that got us here - and got us Trump - in the first place.
 
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A lot of Democrats have dropped out already but figured this is the first one worth sharing because of how overhyped Harris became by the mainstream media after her good performance at the first debate. A lot of people in that camp were hyping her up to be a "female Obama."

I think Tulsi ended Kamala's campaign when she called her out for mass incarceration, including arresting people for smoking marijuana. Ever since then, it's been a downward descent. It doesn't help that she doesn't support Medicare for All when that's the future of healthcare many voters in her party want to see.
 

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