• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

The Worthiness of The Master Sword

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Staff member
Comm. Coordinator
Site Staff
I can't remember precisely, but I think the Trial of the Gods is completed before collecting the shards of the shattered Triforce of Courage.
This is accurate, he had to complete the Trail of the Gods to gain access to the world beneath the ocean, and presumably, to be worthy to weild the Master Sword too. And this was before he had the Triforce of Courage. Thus, one can weild the Master Sword without also being a Triforce bearer. This is further evidenced by other games, even Ocarina of Time, where the Hero of Time was deemed worthy of the sword but did not yet possess the Triforce of Courage. He was sealed away in suspended animation only because he was not of age to weild it yet (this brings up The Wind Waker Link's age, whether he was of age, or if an exception was made in his case).
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Location
Canada
This is accurate, he had to complete the Trail of the Gods to gain access to the world beneath the ocean, and presumably, to be worthy to weild the Master Sword too. And this was before he had the Triforce of Courage. Thus, one can weild the Master Sword without also being a Triforce bearer. This is further evidenced by other games, even Ocarina of Time, where the Hero of Time was deemed worthy of the sword but did not yet possess the Triforce of Courage. He was sealed away in suspended animation only because he was not of age to weild it yet (this brings up The Wind Waker Link's age, whether he was of age, or if an exception was made in his case).

I believe this technicality was mentioned in an article about Fi's consciousness remaining in the Master Sword and judging each incarnation of the Hero based on how her original master looked. This is why the Link shown in Twilight Princess was able to wield the sword so effectively, he bore a striking resemblance to her original master and was the same age. Since Wind Waker was on a separate timeline, Fi would have learned to look past physical appearances and examine internal qualities mainly. So, Link, as he appears in Wind Waker, was deemed worthy despite not being the same age as the Link shown in Skyward Sword, the older Link shown in Ocarina of Time, and the Link present in Twilight Princess.

PS: This isn't related but is an annoyance of mine - Grammarly wants to omit "the" before Master Sword.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
I'm not sure there's any need to have some spirit of the hero in order to pull out the Master Sword. The Hero of Winds, allegedly, was not connected to previous wielders in any way, but was able to pull the sword after jumping through some hoops and combing his hair in a particular way. In Wind Waker, the closest analogue is probably the Mjolnir of Marvel Comics that puts more emphasis on personal worth and valor than it does anything biological.

That is until Breath of the Wild, which changed how I perceived the Master Sword.

We know that Fi faded into the Master Sword at the end of Skyward Sword and that she speaks to Zelda several times during the events of Breath of the Wild. Seeing as she is self-aware in the sword, I don't think it's unreasonable that Fi is actually the one determining worthiness whenever anyone tries to wield the Master Sword.

And then BotW Link fought Ganon and lost. Not only did he lose, but he was beaten to near death and would not have survived without the intervention of his Princess Zelda.

This is the Master Sword following its disastrous encounter with Ganon:

maxresdefault.jpg


The blade has been physically mauled. Chunks of it are missing. It took a hundred years for the Master Sword to piece itself back together and even then it's barely functioning. It operates at half power most of the time and is capable of operating at full power for only brief periods of time.

It tries to kill Link.

This can be justified however you want by game mechanics, but the Master Sword in Breath of the Wild actively tries to kill Link when he draws it. I've seen other players suggest that this is some test of worthiness, but this is the only time we've seen the Master Sword lash out with any sort of fatal intent.

It's also the only time the Master Sword was physically damaged in such a way that its functions were crippled.

Actual theorizing time:

Fi has always been in the Master Sword and is solely responsible for dictating who and who may not wield the blade and who is or is not worthy. Unfortunately, this effectively made the Master Sword her body when she gave up her physical form to inhabit the blade. And then the Calamity tore the hell out of Link and savaged the Master Sword until it could barely function--essentially doing the same to Fi.

So Fi shuts down. She goes into low power mode, turns on all the alarms, and gives the Master Sword time to reconstitute itself. She's near the end of the process (which I'm assuming based on the Master Sword regaining its full power immediately upon completing the Master Trials) and then some asshole comes into the Lost Woods and tries to pull her out just as she's finishing up repairs.

Automatic defense systems go up: the Master Sword tries to kill Link to prevent him from interrupting repairs. Depending on how many heart containers Link has, this succeeds or fails.

Long theory short: Fi is the one determining worthiness to wield the Master Sword and said conditions are arbitrary.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Location
Canada
I'm not sure there's any need to have some spirit of the hero in order to pull out the Master Sword. The Hero of Winds, allegedly, was not connected to previous wielders in any way, but was able to pull the sword after jumping through some hoops and combing his hair in a particular way. In Wind Waker, the closest analogue is probably the Mjolnir of Marvel Comics that puts more emphasis on personal worth and valor than it does anything biological.

That is until Breath of the Wild, which changed how I perceived the Master Sword.

We know that Fi faded into the Master Sword at the end of Skyward Sword and that she speaks to Zelda several times during the events of Breath of the Wild. Seeing as she is self-aware in the sword, I don't think it's unreasonable that Fi is actually the one determining worthiness whenever anyone tries to wield the Master Sword.

And then BotW Link fought Ganon and lost. Not only did he lose, but he was beaten to near death and would not have survived without the intervention of his Princess Zelda.

This is the Master Sword following its disastrous encounter with Ganon:

maxresdefault.jpg


The blade has been physically mauled. Chunks of it are missing. It took a hundred years for the Master Sword to piece itself back together and even then it's barely functioning. It operates at half power most of the time and is capable of operating at full power for only brief periods of time.

It tries to kill Link.

This can be justified however you want by game mechanics, but the Master Sword in Breath of the Wild actively tries to kill Link when he draws it. I've seen other players suggest that this is some test of worthiness, but this is the only time we've seen the Master Sword lash out with any sort of fatal intent.

It's also the only time the Master Sword was physically damaged in such a way that its functions were crippled.

Actual theorizing time:

Fi has always been in the Master Sword and is solely responsible for dictating who and who may not wield the blade and who is or is not worthy. Unfortunately, this effectively made the Master Sword her body when she gave up her physical form to inhabit the blade. And then the Calamity tore the hell out of Link and savaged the Master Sword until it could barely function--essentially doing the same to Fi.

So Fi shuts down. She goes into low power mode, turns on all the alarms, and gives the Master Sword time to reconstitute itself. She's near the end of the process (which I'm assuming based on the Master Sword regaining its full power immediately upon completing the Master Trials) and then some asshole comes into the Lost Woods and tries to pull her out just as she's finishing up repairs.

Automatic defense systems go up: the Master Sword tries to kill Link to prevent him from interrupting repairs. Depending on how many heart containers Link has, this succeeds or fails.

Long theory short: Fi is the one determining worthiness to wield the Master Sword and said conditions are arbitrary.

All very valid points that you've made. I would like to add to them though. I think that Fi was imbued with a set of parameters by Hylia to judge the worth of every Hero. Additionally, Fi would base these parameters on the merits displayed by her original master, SS Link, and his internal qualities. As a consequence of these parameters, Fi also recorded physical appearance as a base requirement, most likely the Hero's age. SS Link was 17 years old when he met Fi and became the Master Sword's original wielder, and so fast forward to the time of Ocarina of Time where Fi now resides within the Master Sword as a disembodied consciousness is where things became complicated. OoT Link drew upon the Master Sword when he was 10 years old. Now it would have been by this point in that Fi would've logically examined this new warrior, this new Hero and thought, "He is of a noble heart. He is courageous. He is kind. He is of a strong mind and body, but he is too young." So, the drawback was sealing away Link's spirit inside the Sacred Realm for seven years because Link was not the same age as Fi's original master.

Now, it is my theory, that each new Hero who rises up to defend the land of Hyrule from the evil that pervades the Kingdom would have to be worthy of the Triforce of Courage and possess in essence, the Spirit of the Hero. Canonically, this component is believed to be some kind of divine blessing of the goddesses that characterizes Link as the Chosen One. He's not just a hero, no, he's the Hero. However, I also made another post a while back discussing in tandem that the Spirit of the Hero is the disembodied soul of SS Link who is reincarnated into a new body throughout the ages. This holds some merit as Demise spoke of the Spirit of the Hero, but he could have been referring to future successors of the original Hero. I won't get into that now because it's not relevant here.

So in the case of Wind Waker, I believe that Link was only able to wield the Master Sword at all because he gained approval from the goddesses. Next to Hylia, the most important beings in all of Hyrule are Din, Faore, and Nayru, so Fi knew that this new warrior had the internal qualities befitting of the Hero because the goddesses blessed his efforts. As such, she would have ignored his age outright and determined that physical appearance was not important at all. I suppose in essence, that Link bypassed needing the Triforce of Courage or the Spirit of the Hero. He wasn't born worthy, he made himself worthy and that was something which Fi couldn't overlook.

So, I do agree that Fi is the one making these decisions but she obviously has guidelines instilled in her by Hylia to make this judgement call of worthiness.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
All very valid points that you've made. I would like to add to them though. I think that Fi was imbued with a set of parameters by Hylia to judge the worth of every Hero. Additionally, Fi would base these parameters on the merits displayed by her original master, SS Link, and his internal qualities. As a consequence of these parameters, Fi also recorded physical appearance as a base requirement, most likely the Hero's age. SS Link was 17 years old when he met Fi and became the Master Sword's original wielder, and so fast forward to the time of Ocarina of Time where Fi now resides within the Master Sword as a disembodied consciousness is where things became complicated. OoT Link drew upon the Master Sword when he was 10 years old. Now it would have been by this point in that Fi would've logically examined this new warrior, this new Hero and thought, "He is of a noble heart. He is courageous. He is kind. He is of a strong mind and body, but he is too young." So, the drawback was sealing away Link's spirit inside the Sacred Realm for seven years because Link was not the same age as Fi's original master.

Now, it is my theory, that each new Hero who rises up to defend the land of Hyrule from the evil that pervades the Kingdom would have to be worthy of the Triforce of Courage and possess in essence, the Spirit of the Hero. Canonically, this component is believed to be some kind of divine blessing of the goddesses that characterizes Link as the Chosen One. He's not just a hero, no, he's the Hero. However, I also made another post a while back discussing in tandem that the Spirit of the Hero is the disembodied soul of SS Link who is reincarnated into a new body throughout the ages. This holds some merit as Demise spoke of the Spirit of the Hero, but he could have been referring to future successors of the original Hero. I won't get into that now because it's not relevant here.

So in the case of Wind Waker, I believe that Link was only able to wield the Master Sword at all because he gained approval from the goddesses. Next to Hylia, the most important beings in all of Hyrule are Din, Faore, and Nayru, so Fi knew that this new warrior had the internal qualities befitting of the Hero because the goddesses blessed his efforts. As such, she would have ignored his age outright and determined that physical appearance was not important at all. I suppose in essence, that Link bypassed needing the Triforce of Courage or the Spirit of the Hero. He wasn't born worthy, he made himself worthy and that was something which Fi couldn't overlook.

So, I do agree that Fi is the one making these decisions but she obviously has guidelines instilled in her by Hylia to make this judgement call of worthiness.

I guess it's hard for me to say without some kind of confirmation.

It's unclear to me whether worthiness only matters when drawing the Master Sword. Tetra wielded the sword in the battle against the Ganon of Wind Waker, but only briefly and only long enough to pass it to Link.

40661

Based on the glowing seal, the Master Sword still seems to be magically active despite being held by Tetra, so it's unclear whether Link is actually the only person who can draw it. More likely it's the only one who has tried. We've never seen a Sword in the Stone round robin attempt at pulling the Master Sword from its pedestal before.

I'm of the mind that courage and purity of heart and all that are the only real requirements to draw it, but until we see someone else use it, results are inconclusive.

As an aside: based on Linkle's actions and the initiative she displayed in Hyrule Warriors, I suspect she would be able to draw the Master Sword even if she isn't spiritually connected with the Spirit of the Hero.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Location
Canada
I guess it's hard for me to say without some kind of confirmation.

It's unclear to me whether worthiness only matters when drawing the Master Sword. Tetra wielded the sword in the battle against the Ganon of Wind Waker, but only briefly and only long enough to pass it to Link.

View attachment 40661

Based on the glowing seal, the Master Sword still seems to be magically active despite being held by Tetra, so it's unclear whether Link is actually the only person who can draw it. More likely it's the only one who has tried. We've never seen a Sword in the Stone round robin attempt at pulling the Master Sword from its pedestal before.

I'm of the mind that courage and purity of heart and all that are the only real requirements to draw it, but until we see someone else use it, results are inconclusive.

As an aside: based on Linkle's actions and the initiative she displayed in Hyrule Warriors, I suspect she would be able to draw the Master Sword even if she isn't spiritually connected with the Spirit of the Hero.

Zelda actually possesses an interesting technicality where the Master Sword is concerned. I believe this because Zelda is Hylia reincarnated and it was Hylia who created Fi and the Goddess Sword, which eventually became the Master Sword, so the only caveat of the worthiness aspect is that Fi would always let a Hylia reincarnate aka Princess Zelda wield the Master Sword if the Hero of that Age is not present to do so. I mentioned this earlier on to @Spiritual Mask Salesman. Whether this is canonically true or not, I cannot say, but it is a logical assumption.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Staff member
Comm. Coordinator
Site Staff
Zelda also picked up the Master Sword and placed it in its Pedastal in BotW. I don't think the sword has ever been picked by anyone else. We could attribute Zelda being able to wield the sword to her relation to Hylia, and I think that theory would make sense. However, I also agree with Wombat in the sense that we've never seen other people try to wield the Master Sword; so there is a lack of material to draw from to make a definitive conclusion.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Location
Canada
Zelda also picked up the Master Sword and placed it in its Pedastal in BotW. I don't think the sword has ever been picked by anyone else. We could attribute Zelda being able to wield the sword to her relation to Hylia, and I think that theory would make sense. However, I also agree with Wombat in the sense that we've never seen other people try to wield the Master Sword; so there is a lack of material to draw from to make a definitive conclusion.

I reckon if other people try to draw the Master Sword from its pedestal then nothing will happen. The sword will not budge for them because they are not worthy of wielding the blade or the title that comes with it. This is the canonical direction I would like to see Nintendo draw upon in future instalments. With the exception of Link and Zelda, no one else should be capable of wielding the Master Sword, the sword would not budge for them at all because Fi would judge them to be unworthy of the blade.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
I reckon if other people try to draw the Master Sword from its pedestal then nothing will happen. The sword will not budge for them because they are not worthy of wielding the blade or the title that comes with it. This is the canonical direction I would like to see Nintendo draw upon in future instalments. With the exception of Link and Zelda, no one else should be capable of wielding the Master Sword, the sword would not budge for them at all because Fi would judge them to be unworthy of the blade.

I'm not a fan of this idea. Heroism isn't limited to those people with an arbitrary connection to a couple of dead people. If there is courage in one's heart and valor in one's hand, then they should be able to draw the Master Sword same as Link.

I also don't like chosen one storylines, which certainly doesn't help.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Location
Canada
I'm not a fan of this idea. Heroism isn't limited to those people with an arbitrary connection to a couple of dead people. If there is courage in one's heart and valor in one's hand, then they should be able to draw the Master Sword same as Link.

I also don't like chosen one storylines, which certainly doesn't help.

I think it works out better this way. You have to be worthy and the only way to have that worth is to have the approval of the goddesses as the Hero. LoZ has a lot of themes about fate and destiny and removing those things is getting rid of a core component of what makes those games work. It's based on epic tales, there's a call to action or destiny and the hero usually has some sort of supernatural ability or characteristic that differs him from the rest. Which is how Link works. His supernatural ability is his fighting skills, he is uncannily skilled with the blade to a supernatural degree.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
I think it works out better this way. You have to be worthy and the only way to have that worth is to have the approval of the goddesses as the Hero. LoZ has a lot of themes about fate and destiny and removing those things is getting rid of a core component of what makes those games work. It's based on epic tales, there's a call to action or destiny and the hero usually has some sort of supernatural ability or characteristic that differs him from the rest. Which is how Link works. His supernatural ability is his fighting skills, he is uncannily skilled with the blade to a supernatural degree.

I'm all for cutting the fat to make a superior product. I only like Breath of the Wild as much as I do, because it ditched nearly every element of the series I didn't like.

Heroism and bravery should be based on personal agency. If everything is all preordained by some barely involved gods, it doesn't mean anything.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Location
Canada
I'm all for cutting the fat to make a superior product. I only like Breath of the Wild as much as I do, because it ditched nearly every element of the series I didn't like.

Heroism and bravery should be based on personal agency. If everything is all preordained by some barely involved gods, it doesn't mean anything.

There is a personal agency involved, but if that's all it took, anyone could have done what Link always does in the games. But there's more involved here than mere autonomy, there is destiny. You can't remove a core element like being preordained to a certain lifestyle in the Zelda series without dismantling what made these games work for decades. I'm not a fan of removing the godly aspect from these titles because they are necessary to that world. Everyone in Hyrule believes in the goddesses and their entire world is saturated with the supernatural with other deities and lesser gods. Atheism in Hyrule just doesn't work because the goddesses will actively intervene or send ambassadors to do so for them. The Light Spirits and Hylia herself are lesser deities but they are present in the series, Link couldn't be known as Hylia's Champion if there wasn't destiny involved.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
There is a personal agency involved, but if that's all it took, anyone could have done what Link always does in the games. But there's more involved here than mere autonomy, there is destiny. You can't remove a core element like being preordained to a certain lifestyle in the Zelda series without dismantling what made these games work for decades. I'm not a fan of removing the godly aspect from these titles because they are necessary to that world. Everyone in Hyrule believes in the goddesses and their entire world is saturated with the supernatural with other deities and lesser gods. Atheism in Hyrule just doesn't work because the goddesses will actively intervene or send ambassadors to do so for them. The Light Spirits and Hylia herself are lesser deities but they are present in the series, Link couldn't be known as Hylia's Champion if there wasn't destiny involved.

Everyone should be able to do what Link does. Link is just the one who happens to do it. Removing the chosen one storyline doesn't mean removing godliness from the world. It just means putting a focus on character agency versus guided actions.

(Incidentally, Breath of the Wild removed tons of things previously considered staples of the series and was all the better for it.)
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Location
Canada
Everyone should be able to do what Link does. Link is just the one who happens to do it. Removing the chosen one storyline doesn't mean removing godliness from the world. It just means putting a focus on character agency versus guided actions.

(Incidentally, Breath of the Wild removed tons of things previously considered staples of the series and was all the better for it.)

I disagree. Only Link is capable of doing what he does. He's the bearer of the Triforce of Courage, that puts him above everyone but Zelda and Ganondorf. I also don't consider Breath of the Wild canon because it disrupts common staples in the series which have been in places for years. Link doesn't have to answer his call to action from the goddesses, he could just choose to walk away or simply not do anything at all, but he does. There's decision making on his part and the goddesses don't tell him what he should be doing, he largely figures this out for himself. They just give him the means of doing it, which is why Link is blessed with Faore's courage as she is Link's patron goddess.

I honestly can't figure out why you're so against this chosen one storyline. I think it works out really well for a Medieval fantasy series.
 

Bowsette Plus-Ultra

wah
ZD Legend
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Location
Iowa
Gender
Lizard
I disagree. Only Link is capable of doing what he does. He's the bearer of the Triforce of Courage, that puts him above everyone but Zelda and Ganondorf. I also don't consider Breath of the Wild canon because it disrupts common staples in the series which have been in places for years. Link doesn't have to answer his call to action from the goddesses, he could just choose to walk away or simply not do anything at all, but he does. There's decision making on his part and the goddesses don't tell him what he should be doing, he largely figures this out for himself. They just give him the means of doing it, which is why Link is blessed with Faore's courage as she is Link's patron goddess.

I honestly can't figure out why you're so against this chosen one storyline. I think it works out really well for a Medieval fantasy series.

Because if he's being fed all the tools and powers by someone else and just being guided around by a chosen one leash, he's not really a hero, just some divine errand boy. Links spends almost no time making any decisions for himself and spends the vast majority of it being told to go and do something.

The only Link I'd say really has much agency is Linkle.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom