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Game Thread Avatar: The Last Airbender Mafia

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Pen

The game is on!
Day 1 Current Vote Tally:
Mellow Ezlo - 3 (kokirion, Eduarda, Storm)
Eduarda - 1 (DekuNut)
Bok of the Wild - 1 (A Link In Time)
No Lynch - 1 (Miss Cucco)

Extension - 4 (Eduarda, Mellow Ezlo, DekuNut, Miss Cucco)

Not voting - Libk, Minish_Link, Domozilla777, funnier6, EMIYA Shirou, Mellow Ezlo, Bok of the Wild

With 13 players alive it takes 7 for a majority lynch. Otherwise the day ends on Monday, July 24th 2017 at 11:00 PM CEST.
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Wherever history is in the making
For some wondering why my posts are rather... sporadic, most of you guys post when I am sleeping. When I'm ready nothing is happening and when I wake up I have 5 pages to read...

Anyway
As for myself, I've said all I really can. While my role is rather uncommon in a game of this size, think about who's modding. Pendio has been known to include lesser used and rather unconventional roles in his games.
Something has been bothering me today, and I couldn't get it out of my head. I find your roleclaim a bit inconsistent. You basically soft-claimed Vengeful if I'm right, but why would that be a danger for us? The normal powers of the vengeful townie are the following: if the vengeful dies, he/she can kill a single person at will. If you can call a single person, no matter who, and you are town, then isn't that basically just an extra vigilante shot tonight? The way you are presenting it gives me the feeling that only those that voted for you are at risk, and that you are kind of like a bomb. This is weird, however, because it is a very very non-standard version on the vengeful townie. And you may say in the quote above that Pendio is known for somewhat unconventional roles, which is... imo partially true, but he also clearly stated in the opening of this game that this is NOT a bastard game. He attempts to only use conventional roles. Vengeful is already an uncommon role (but not a non-standard one), the version you allegedly have is even more rare. I don't believe he added that to the game.

My thoughts on them? Tristan's makes sense. It's a safe claim if he's scum, and an important claim in yourf he's town. I'd be down for lynching him tbh, at least if we have no better leads. I don't want to have this WIFOM in front of us all game. Plus, if we eventually decide to take the chance with him, I'd rather take that chance when we're close to the start of the game, because that could be game-ending down the line. For now though, I feel like we could find better. There's no actual reasons to think he's scum. Just a painful WIFOM.
I also don't like this WIFOM. What the movie The Princess Bride told us, where the phrase comes from, was that there is no way to unravel a WIFOM. It's circular reasoning. Thus, personally, I am often inclined to policy lynch. Sometimes there are exceptions, when the stakes are very high, but this is not the case. Right now it is safe to lynch him, no matter the consequences. That may not be the same later in the game, and I would not like our position at that point to depend on a WIFOM.

I was thinking the same thing too. Thar finding Storm to be even more suspicious after his role claim doesn't make sense at all. And it makes me all the more curious as to what your role is, Mex. Because Thar's post can be seen as defending you.
Interesting.

Well, I guess it is common for Pendio's games. But I was on a Mafia hiatus during half of those games and the others took place years ago so my memory is a little fuzzy. Sorry if that doesn't account for everything else, but--
I do believe your explanation. Seems reasonable.

I usually wouldn't suggest this, but since it's a small game, what do you guys think about the possibility of a No Lynch for today. Tomorrow we'll have a nightkill or maybe even two, to work with. Or would you rather we use today's kill to collect information and hopefully pin a scum.
Definitely not.
The mafia will move, and will not accidentally kill another mafia member. Any victim will be town 100%. The lynch is our owny shot at killing mafia members.
Besides, we don't even know if there is a vig or anything aiding us with nightkill powers. With a no lynch we effectively have a second first day tomorrow and with 1 less townie.
 

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Location
eh?
Gender
Slothkin
Something has been bothering me today, and I couldn't get it out of my head. I find your roleclaim a bit inconsistent. You basically soft-claimed Vengeful if I'm right, but why would that be a danger for us? The normal powers of the vengeful townie are the following: if the vengeful dies, he/she can kill a single person at will. If you can call a single person, no matter who, and you are town, then isn't that basically just an extra vigilante shot tonight? The way you are presenting it gives me the feeling that only those that voted for you are at risk, and that you are kind of like a bomb. This is weird, however, because it is a very very non-standard version on the vengeful townie. And you may say in the quote above that Pendio is known for somewhat unconventional roles, which is... imo partially true, but he also clearly stated in the opening of this game that this is NOT a bastard game. He attempts to only use conventional roles. Vengeful is already an uncommon role (but not a non-standard one), the version you allegedly have is even more rare. I don't believe he added that to the game.
In Skyward Sword Mafia, I was a Recycler, which was a made-up role that allowed me to take the role of the last townie to get lynched (essentially a modified backup), and that person was revealed as a Vanilla Townie. That's definitely un-conventional. So how out of the ordinary is it really that Pendio would include a role like mine in the game? Keep in mind that he loves role madness setups. Also, I know the Wiki says otherwise, but every version of Vengeful I've ever seen in games I've played on this site included the restriction that only players involved with the lynch could be targeted. Honestly, being able to kill anybody you choose after you get lynched seems rather OP imo.

Anyway, this is something you're just going to have to trust me on. I already proposed that we look elsewhere today and then you can go after me tomorrow if we hit town. You really want to risk the high possibility of two townies dying the first day, just to have more die during the night? That's a terrible risk to take, especially in a game with so few players.
 

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Location
eh?
Gender
Slothkin
And even if I could kill anybody at will, how is that not also dangerous? The odds of hitting scum are going to be low either way with these numbers. So either way you look at it, it's dangerous for the town. You can't deny that.
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Wherever history is in the making
In Skyward Sword Mafia, I was a Recycler, which was a made-up role that allowed me to take the role of the last townie to get lynched (essentially a modified backup), and that person was revealed as a Vanilla Townie. That's definitely un-conventional. So how out of the ordinary is it really that Pendio would include a role like mine in the game? Keep in mind that he loves role madness setups. Also, I know the Wiki says otherwise, but every version of Vengeful I've ever seen in games I've played on this site included the restriction that only players involved with the lynch could be targeted. Honestly, being able to kill anybody you choose after you get lynched seems rather OP imo.

Anyway, this is something you're just going to have to trust me on. I already proposed that we look elsewhere today and then you can go after me tomorrow if we hit town. You really want to risk the high possibility of two townies dying the first day, just to have more die during the night? That's a terrible risk to take, especially in a game with so few players.

This is what Pendio wrote in the sign ups:
It’s time for a new game so I hope you’re excited to play. This will be a 13 player game and it will be a rather traditional one. No bastard modding or anything like that

Traditional, non-bastard? I'm not expecting very rare roles in this game.
 

Pen

The game is on!
To clarify my earlier statement, I meant that this game is traditional in the sense that it's not a bastard game, in contrast to the previous one. ;)

Day ends in a little over 9 hours!
 

Morbid Minish

Spooky Scary Skeleton.
Forum Volunteer
Vote: A Link In Time

My reason for suspecting him early was a bit weak, but his recent posts have only made him look scummier to me. I was waiting to see if any of the people on Mezlo would remove their vote after all the discussion of him possibly being able to kill one of the people on his lynch. ALIT was the only one who did that. Then he said he was going to look at all the non-voters for potential leads, which is really odd to me. Why not look at everyone, especially the people who have voted? Scum wants to kill town, and lynching is a really easy way for them to do that especially during day 1. They wouldn't be sitting back considering a no-lynch, or waiting for someone to majorly slip up to be more sure about their vote. And finally, after no explanation for why he removed his vote on Mezlo, he instead voted for Bok with no explanation, unless you consider the brief statement about Bok being okay with a Mezlo lynch but not committing to it as an explanation (which I don't).
 

funnier6

Courage~
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Location
the present
Gender
Voe
funnier6 - Had an RVS vote on Storm but seems to want people to explain their meta to him before committing a serious vote.

I wouldn't exactly say that, I just meant I've only played with half the people in this game before so I mostly have to go on other peoples experience to determine what's unusual for the half I don't know.
 
@Minish_Link

I mentioned previously that I am suspicious of Eduarda for her early game play and more recently for insisting that she stay on Mellow Ezlo. I believe she is a good early game solver so this behavior comes off as lazy and anti-town to me, since, as Mellow Ezlo said, there is a very high probability of losing two townies with his lynch.

That said, I have doubts that mafia would make such a bold move on Day 1. I think they would want to avoid a possible vengeful wagon completely. That's why I glazed over the Mezlo wagon completely. I think mafia wpuld wash their hands of it, and Bok of the Wild fits that description well.

I'm willing to reevaluate DekuNut on subsequent days, but I feel he's made more insightful contributions than most today, and his case on Eduarda strikes me as more townie than not for breaking the mold.

Overall, I'm not a fan of your vote because it feels like you're twisting the evidence to fit your preconceived notion that I am scum instead of using the evidence to come to that conclusion, especially after it was discussed that a Mellow Ezlo lynch has an extremely high probability of resulting in two dead townies at the end of the day.
 

funnier6

Courage~
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Location
the present
Gender
Voe
Everybody's got to be posting while Im sleeping...

Anyway I will not be voting for extension and I believe we should go with Mezlos plan, I still don't believe he'd lie about being vengeful so we should at least give him another day.
 

Ronin

There you are! You monsters!
Forum Volunteer
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Location
Alrest
I'm not going to place a vote unless there's something concrete. Day 2 will hopefully reveal everything that I need to know. Call it "laying low' if you want to, but there hasn't been much to go off of.
 

Morbid Minish

Spooky Scary Skeleton.
Forum Volunteer
@Minish_Link

I mentioned previously that I am suspicious of Eduarda for her early game play and more recently for insisting that she stay on Mellow Ezlo. I believe she is a good early game solver so this behavior comes off as lazy and anti-town to me, since, as Mellow Ezlo said, there is a very high probability of losing two townies with his lynch.

That said, I have doubts that mafia would make such a bold move on Day 1. I think they would want to avoid a possible vengeful wagon completely. That's why I glazed over the Mezlo wagon completely. I think mafia wpuld wash their hands of it, and Bok of the Wild fits that description well.

I'm willing to reevaluate DekuNut on subsequent days, but I feel he's made more insightful contributions than most today, and his case on Eduarda strikes me as more townie than not for breaking the mold.

Overall, I'm not a fan of your vote because it feels like you're twisting the evidence to fit your preconceived notion that I am scum instead of using the evidence to come to that conclusion, especially after it was discussed that a Mellow Ezlo lynch has an extremely high probability of resulting in two dead townies at the end of the day.

I don't feel as though I'm twisting evidence to fit any preconceived notion, because there are plenty of times where I don't even vote on day 1 because I don't see a suitable person to lynch. You said you were sticking with your vote for Mezlo after he had claimed, because you felt there was no reason for him to do so and that it came off as either a risky bluff or desperation. Yet, you've now removed your vote from him and say there's a high probability of losing two townies with his lynch. I was waiting to see if any of the three votes for him removed their vote after all of the discussion of lynching him and you did just that. It would be easy for scum to join in on voting him early on, then try to get more townies to vote for him as well and have a change of mind and remove their vote for fear of being taken out. Like you said, mafia would wash their hands of a Mezlo lynch, which you just did. And that statement also makes your suspicion of Eduarda for her insistence of staying on Mezlo not make much sense. If she were scum she definitely wouldn't stay on his lynch, because she would know he's probably not bluffing. Her insistence actually looks extremely townie because she feels so confident about Mezlo that she's willing to take a huge risk. Albeit, not a good risk, but she's been consistent with her suspicions.

I'm also not quite convinced on that Bok vote either. He hasn't really done anything else that seems scummy. Whereas EMIYA has been a few people's radar (though for something small), and had a vote on Mezlo until he claimed, at which point he removed his vote. That seems much more suspicious to me than Bok's statement.

Sure, I'm not entirely convinced that you are scum, but you're my only lead at the moment and I feel like your lynch would be less risky than Mezlo's (whom I believe to be town).
 
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