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Where is Kokiri Forest In Twilight Princess?

DeadGuyL

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So guys I came thinking and I really do not know where the kokiri forest is in TP. I saw a map comparing the maps of Oot, TP and SS and partially saw a similarity, would it be right? Does this explain the absence of kokiri (or koroks) in TP?SS-OoTComparisonMap.png
 

DeadGuyL

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Naturally it would be right next to the lost woods which are actually present in TP. You just don't visit the bit where the Kokiri forest would have been. Which also explains their absence.

Then we might consider BotW going on the Child Timeline?
 

PalaeoJoe

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Wow, looking at this map comparison I'm surprised how consistent the three maps actually seem to be.

Then we might consider BotW going on the Child Timeline?
Well BotW can't be on the origin timeline and either Miyamoto or Aonuma said that the game is not related to tWW. So based on that yes, we have to consider that BotW is either on the Child or Downfall time lines. Though I don't know how this comparison map allows for a Child Time Line consideration.
 

DeadGuyL

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Wow, looking at this map comparison I'm surprised how consistent the three maps actually seem to be.


Well BotW can't be on the origin timeline and either Miyamoto or Aonuma said that the game is not related to tWW. So based on that yes, we have to consider that BotW is either on the Child or Downfall time lines. Though I don't know how this comparison map allows for a Child Time Line consideration.

Cause, Koroks are present in BotW and the kokiri forest isn't show in TP
 

Castle

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The maps are notoriously inconsistent. The ALttP/OoT maps are remarkably similar - people have even made the case that the Lost Woods of ALttP is in the clouded out region immediately west of Hyrule Castle in OoT - but the TP map makes a mess of things. I've actually got threads here on ZD theorizing as to why. To me the biggest discrepancy is hardly the forest. It's Lake Hylia and most notably Death Mountain. My threads speculate that massive geological instability evident in TP caused a massive change in Hyrule's geography and that TPs Death Mountain is actually a very new mountain and the Death Mountain of ALttP/OoT is gone/absent/possibly Snowpeak.

The Forest is a different matter. It's apparent that the forests' location tends to change. The Lost Woods in particular seems to be something of a trans-dimensional plane that makes a mess of time and space and thus could conceivably exist anywhere. The forest is also vast, forests tend to grow quickly and thus its borders can change rapidly. And of course forests can disappear even more quickly. The biggest forest in any period in Hyrule is understandably OoT's - the borders of which conceivably expand far beyond what is charted in Hyrule's atlas. This would make sense since it is the earliest depiction of Hyrule to date (short of Skudwart Skjrd) and is explicitly stated to be primordial. In ALttP there is no forest in the same place which could mean that it was destroyed. Instead the wooded region is in the NW of Hyrule.

Now the difference between the OoT/TP atlas is that in TP the forest is very south. In OoT it is very east - kinda north easterly in fact. Interestingly, I've heard the Kokiri Forest/Lost Woods in OoT repeatedly referred to as being in southern Hyrule from a variety of sources which never made sense to me. Perhaps this was intended to be canonical despite its actual location in game? Who knows? Regardless, TPs forest isn't that far removed from OoTs if you consider that the forest grew to encompass much of southern Hyrule.

I think it is entirely possible that Kokiri village is not depicted in TP. Some have argued that Ordon village is Kokiri village and that Link's house in TP is in fact the same one as the Hero of Time's. I think this is conjecture at best. Entirely possible but not necessarily true. Some say TPs Forest Temple is what remains of the Great Deku tree. Others point to the massive stump just beyond the Great Bridge of Hylia as the remains of the Deku Tree. Of course it is strongly suggested that the Temple of Time in TP - which is explicitly stated to be in the Lost Woods - is the same one from OoT, even going so far as to make a deliberate link between OoT and ALttP. Then you realize that ALttP is on a different branch of the timeline and neither the forest nor the Temple share the same location in any of the three games.

So this is all as bewildering as you can expect of whatever consistencies there are between games.
 
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As far as the majority of the inconsistencies go, I think it's better just to consider the series as a set of stories that have been passed down from person to person, with the inconsistencies being a result of this 'oral tradition', as it's referred to in Skyward Sword... details can easily be forgotten or mis-remembered, especially if they are not essential to the story itself... the exact layout of Hyrule being an example of this.
Rather that looking at the inconsistencies, it's better to look at the consistencies... if a detail had been retold the same way multiple times, then it is far more unlikely for a mistake to have been made.... whereas a one-off variation is more likely to have been a mistake.
 
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I don't believe the entire map can be made consistent, but there are a few landmarks that seem to paint a coherent picture of what happened to the kokiri forest and the Master Sword. The general story of the map is that the forest encroached all the way across hyrule field and hyrule castle. The master sword's resting place after OoT was the temple of time. What you find in TP is an overgrown, ruined temple of time, but it is the same building nonetheless. Since the temple of time was in the castle town, this means that the forest must have encroached all the way to this point. Deep in the Faron woods is a gorge that separates Faron from Ordona. If this gorge is the same one that used to separate the kokiri forest from hyrule field, then it's likely that Ordona is where the Kokiri forest used to be. This theory is supported in Hyrule Historia, as it states that the bows worn by Ordon villagers are supposed to be reminiscent of the fairies of the Kokiri.
 
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The master sword's resting place after OoT was the temple of time. What you find in TP is an overgrown, ruined temple of time, but it is the same building nonetheless. Since the temple of time was in the castle town, this means that the forest must have encroached all the way to this point.
Seeing as the ToT on the Great Plateau has been confirmed to be the Castle Town ToT from OoT, this doesn't really add up.
It's more likely that they are two different Temples of Time, as has been theorised for quite some time.
 
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Where was it confirmed that the Great Plateau's ToT is the same from OoT?
I'm not sure if it has been officially confirmed (I think it may have been hinted at during one of the live streams), but it has been unofficially confirmed by all of the analysis that had been done on the Great Plateau gameplay... the temple and ruins are too similar to those of Castle Town for them not to be the same place.
 
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Seeing as the ToT on the Great Plateau has been confirmed to be the Castle Town ToT from OoT, this doesn't really add up.
It's more likely that they are two different Temples of Time, as has been theorised for quite some time.

Well surely the temple didn't rebuild itself in the 10,000+ years between TP and BoTW, but 10,000 years does give you a lot of leeway for it to have been restored. I'll grant you that the name "Temple of Time" gets used to describe multiple buildings throughout the series. BoTW Temple of Time is almost certainly supposed to be the same building as in OoT, but there are still reasons to believe the sacred grove in TP is, too.

The sequence of events by which you enter the dungeon called "Temple of Time" in TP indicates the connection almost explicitly. You go to the sacred grove and pass through a magical doorway, which puts you in an area that is very clearly the temple of time from OoT. The layout, decor, and music are almost exactly the same. It is also clear that the landmarks within this temple match those of the sacred groves ruins, such as the sword pedestal. To get into the dungeon, you enter a different kind of magical doorway that is behind the sword pedestal (i.e. where the light temple would have been in OoT) and sure enough, the light medallion symbol is everywhere in that dungeon. It would seem that in this scene you traveled back in time to before the temple was ruined, in order to enter the Light Temple.

There is also the matter of the Hero of Time leaving the master sword in that pedestal at the end of OoT. Only Link can draw it from the pedestal, so it's coherent to think that it remained there unmolested until the Hero of Twilight found it. I suppose if the pedestal can be moved it could have just been moved to a duplicate building which then became ruined, but that strains disbelief more than to think the temple was just restored prior to BoTW.
 

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I've often speculated that the ToT is a lot like Doctor Who's Tardis. It has been known to act as the gateway to the Sacred Realm and often serves as a vault for the Master Sword which in turn has served as one part of a key to that transdimensional gateway. Given its apparent ties to the Lost Woods and the timey-wimey twisted nature of both, it's conceivable that the ToT can change shape and location over the ages (sometimes even taking the Master Sword with it) from whatever magic sustains it, be it from the Sages or due to its connection to the sacred realm or lost woods. Even as the temple deteriorates into ruin, it still exhibits its time/space transdimensional properties.
 
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The sequence of events by which you enter the dungeon called "Temple of Time" in TP indicates the connection almost explicitly. You go to the sacred grove and pass through a magical doorway, which puts you in an area that is very clearly the temple of time from OoT. The layout, decor, and music are almost exactly the same. It is also clear that the landmarks within this temple match those of the sacred groves ruins, such as the sword pedestal. To get into the dungeon, you enter a different kind of magical doorway that is behind the sword pedestal (i.e. where the light temple would have been in OoT) and sure enough, the light medallion symbol is everywhere in that dungeon. It would seem that in this scene you traveled back in time to before the temple was ruined, in order to enter the Light Temple.
Their designs are both inspired by church architecture, but beyond that there are just as many differences... they are no more alike than you'd expect from two buildings that share a building typology... this does not mean they are the same temple, only that they are both Temples of Time.
Also, the Temple of Light is not behind the ToT in OoT... it's in the Sacred Realm... and the fact that there are so many light medallion symbols in the TP ToT would be due to the fact that it was built by Rauru, the Sage of Light, over the Sealed Grounds (in the forest).
Plus, TP takes place only around 100 years after OoT, which is not enough time for a forest to have overgrown the ruins of Castle Town so extensively... and it's even referred to as an ancient forest, implying that it is far more than 100 years old.

There is also the matter of the Hero of Time leaving the master sword in that pedestal at the end of OoT. Only Link can draw it from the pedestal, so it's coherent to think that it remained there unmolested until the Hero of Twilight found it.
The line about Link being the only one who can draw the Master Sword from the pedestal is actually kind of vague... it could be referring to ability, or it could be referring to permission, with the rest of what is said at that time actually implying the latter.
It may also have only been the seal on the Sacred Realm that was keeping the Master Sword in place, which Link had already broken by the time he left the Master Sword in the pedestal.
Link may also have moved Master Sword himself... it seems like he got up to a lot after his time in Termina, so he may well have moved it.
 

Castle

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Their designs are both inspired by church architecture, but beyond that there are just as many differences... they are no more alike than you'd expect from two buildings that share a building typology... this does not mean they are the same temple, only that they are both Temples of Time.

The differences in architectural features, style and layout between OoT's ToT and TP's ToT are striking- more than enough to suggest that they are different buildings (if the obvious discrepancy in location isn't already obvious enough) BUT! One could also consider that the buildings underwent renovation and that it could even have been physically moved from Castle Town to the forest. Then of course there's my aforementioned Temple of Time as Tardis theory.

Also, the Temple of Light is not behind the ToT in OoT
Presumably it is. Navi is even shown disappearing into the same window that leads to the Temple of Time dungeon in TP.

it's in the Sacred Realm
The Temple of Light is explicitly stated to be within the Sacred Realm, but there is overwhelming evidence to indicate that the Temple of Time dungeon in TP is in fact at least a portion of the Temple of Light, including
and the fact that there are so many light medallion symbols in the TP ToT would be due to the fact that it was built by Rauru
... and the fact that it's the Temple of Light.

Dunno what the sealed grounds has to do with anything, but that's pretty much all I take away from SS's contribution to series lore anyway.

Link may also have moved Master Sword himself... it seems like he got up to a lot after his time in Termina, so he may well have moved it.

That's an interesting theory. I sure wish we knew more about the Hero of Time's activities after his adventures in Termina.
 

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