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Breath of the Wild Zelda Wii U Should Go for a Realistic Art Style!

Joined
Jun 14, 2011
realism is what draws the largest audience to games

I bet most of those games you listed sold because of the gameplay rather than the fact that they have realistic graphics. Obviously these games did pretty well because it has a huge fanbase, I highly doubt realistic graphics was the main reason people picked up a copy.
 
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Ventus

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I bet most of those games you listed sold because of the gameplay rather than the fact that they have realistic graphics. Obviously these games did pretty well because it has a huge fanbase, I highly doubt realistic graphics was the main reason people picked up a copy.

FFXIII? LOL everyone hated the gameplay. People certainly didn't buy the game for music. The story was often cited as crappy. So...? GRAFIX.
Battlefield and CoD are generic shooters. People don't get them for story or for gameplay mechanics; they get them for TEH GRAFIX!1EON.
RDR has great everything, so I concede for that game.
MGS4 has great everything as well, so I concede for that game.
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
FFXIII? LOL everyone hated the gameplay. People certainly didn't buy the game for music. The story was often cited as crappy. So...? GRAFIX.
Battlefield and CoD are generic shooters. People don't get them for story or for gameplay mechanics; they get them for TEH GRAFIX!1EON.

So you are basically saying that these games sucked as video games? That they are nothing more than Graphical Presentations? If that is the case, then Zelda will never implement realistic graphics because Nintendo always cater gameplay more than anything else. Nintendo would never ditch gameplay for realistic graphics. By your logic of people buying games for the graphics, Zelda will fail as a video game which would be a major blow to Nintendo as they are known to make quality gameplay for the series.
 
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Brothakal

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I honestly don't see why we all act like we NEED a more realistic style. I understand most people were upset at Wind Waker because it featured Toon-Link, which I really don't have a problem with. I actually enjoy the "toon" look to the games, especially from Wind Waker's perspective. If the Wii-U started to focus only on graphics just because it would sell more and in turn get them more money, what makes them any better than the money-hogs up at Microsoft when they wanted us to pay for even the silliest little fees. My point I'm trying to make is, let's not look at the unrealistic features as a bad thing, it really doesn't effect how good the actual game is. I loved the Wind Waker and absolutely loved Skyward Sword despite the "cartoonish" looks. I think graphics shouldn't be the basis on whether you like or hate a game. That's just ignorant, so is saying that the series would stay "cartoony forever." Any true Zelda fan wouldn't ask for better graphics, but a better gameplay and story line. Realistic or unrealistic, it's still The Legend Of Zelda, and graphics shouldn't pin it to how good the whole series is.
 
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@Ventus:

Nobody buys video games just for graphics. If that was the case, they'd be better off seeing a movie. Video games are first and foremost interactive entertainment. Call me crazy, but staring at pretty graphics doesn't sound veryinteractive to me.

People bought FFXIII because it was a new game in a long and storied RPG series. Even if its game play wasn't perfect, it was likely good enough for most people to get some enjoyment out of it. The fact that it has a 83% on Metacritc shows that most critics certainly didn't hate it, as you seem to imply. It even as a 7.8 user score , which is pretty impressive since most people usually use the Metacratic user scores to troll. By all accounts the game, while not perfect, was still a decent RPG, and even silly/bad stories can be enjoyable to see play out. There's a reason The Room has such a large cult following after all.

People enjoy Battlefield and CoD because they, believe it or not, enjoy generic shooter game play. It might not be your cup of tea, but a little mindless action can actually be pretty entertaining once you accept that not every game needs to be an artistic masterpiece. Sometimes even film critics will enjoy a dumb action movie. CoD fans may talk about graphics as if its the most important thing to them, but truth be told, if all they could do in a game was walk around looking at the scenery, none of them would play it.
 

ILU

i luv u
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
1. Nintendo specifically said that they want Zelda Wii U to bring Zelda too a big audience. Zelda games sell the most in North America (NA). NA gamers tend to like games with realistic graphics opposed to cartoony graphics, hence why Twilight Princess (TP) sold a lot more than Skyward Sword (SS). If they want the game to sell well, they should make NA the targeted audience, and make the graphics realistic or semi realistic.
I feel like this point is outdated. Toward the middle-to-end of last gen consoles, more artistic and whimsical styles (and comic-book-ish) have been preferred over realistic styles, and often they are artistic models merged with realistic surroundings. Borderlands, Bayonetta, Enslaved, Bioshock Infinite, Darksiders/II, Okami, Muramasa, Persona, Prince of Persia, Final Fantasy 13, No More Heroes/II, Catherine, and so on are only a FEW of the examples. Realistic styles seem to be reserved for shooters in most cases, and more and more games are taking to the artistic trend.

Twilight Princess didn't sell soley because it was "realistic" (which is really isn't realistic aside from some architectural designs), it's biggest selling point was that it was OoT 2.0, and TWW and SS clearly aren't. OoT is very, very anime styled, not realistic. TP is anime-styled with realistic (somewhat) textures and lighting. OoT is quite vibrant, and visually, the only things they really have in common are character models styles (OoT not having melon-headed NPCs). That said, I feel like "Western gamers liek teh realz bro" is a terrible excuse to adopt realistic styles. Zelda may sell more in the west, but that doesn't warrant abandoning or stifling creativity to conform to what is currently popular. Zelda's unique styles have always been and should always be timeless.

2. It been 7 years since a realistic looking Zelda, It’s time for a change and to go back to a more realistic looking Zelda style. I don’t mind the cartoony art style (I loved the way Wind Waker looked), but do you really want the Zelda franchize to stay cartoony forever? Plus, Wind Waker (WW) is being remade on the Wii U, so why have two cartoony Zelda games on the Wii U? Why not mix it up a bit, and give Zelda Wii U a more realistic and darker art style to contrast WW Wii U. Every Zelda game released after TP has been cartoony, that is three original games over 7 years. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with the cartoony art style, but it’s time for change. It’s only fair to go back to a more realistic looking Zelda, and the Wii U is the perfect opportunity for this. There should be balance.
I can't disagree with you here, however, I wouldn't say SS is cartoony. The Wind Waker is cartoony, and Skyward Sword is more anime-meets-classical art. The styles are vastly different and lumping them together in one "cartoony" category is an injustice to the series and the creativity of the designers.

Again, TP wasn't realistic aside from a few textures and lighting (and SOME architecture), but the realistic-meets-anime style is something Nintendo could definitely revisit and improve on. The tech demo is a clear example of how this can be done. In it, Link looks far more "cartoony" than he did in Twilight Princess, but the realistic textures with the more artistic colors are pleasing to the eye. Not much can be said for the world design since all we saw was the cathedral-like setting, but it was designed to look "realistic", and it was pretty. It was another example of how realism and artistic styles can be refreshing and beautiful when merged together.

3. Zelda Wii U is on the Wii U, a next gen console, it has the power to run games with HD and really good graphics, it would be a waste of the console not to push the next Zelda game with a more realistic art style. This is the perfect opportunity for them to make a Zelda game with really really good graphics. SS and WW’s art style had smoothe textures while TP's art style on the other hand, allowed for far more detail in it’s textures and allows for the lighting to be more dynamic. Overall TP’s art style allows for better graphics, and more detail than art style’s from the cell shaded Zelda games. With the Wii U, if they went with a cartoony art style, that would be holding the console back and not allowing it to demonstrate it’s potential. Realistic art styles tend to demonstrate graphics better than cartoony ones. It would be rather lazy of them to give Zelda Wii U a cartoony art style opposed to challenging/utilizing the console with a more realistic one. The Wii U's graphical capabilities shouldn't be wasted.
I cannot agree with you. Realistic style ≠ more or less detail. Artistic styles can have just as much, more, or less detail depending on the designers' choices. There is a ton of realistic art that is simplistic and lacking in detail, and there is a ton of whimsical/fantasy art that is overflowing with detail. To say that detail is dependent on the level of realism is a laughable statement. To imply that embracing a more artistic style over a realistic one is a "waste" of HD capabilities is an ignorant and crude statement, and Bioshock Infinite is a visually-great game to support my point.

4. The reason SS had a cartoony art style was because TP’s realistic graphics pushed the GC/Wii to the limit, Nintendo couldn’t make a Zelda with better graphics than TP on the Wii. So instead of them giving SS realistic graphics, they decided to take it’s visuals in a different direction, giving it a more cartoony look (they also said they used this to emphasize enemies weak spots to help with the motion control). Now with the Wii U, Nintendo actually has the graphical power to make a Zelda game that looks better than TP, so why use SS’s art style on the Wii U?[/B]
The great thing about Nintendo is that they have always been able to make up for what they lack in power with creative presentation. Just because they now have a console capable of HD graphics doesn't mean that they should abandon that creative design. The Wind Waker would have been a miserable failure of a game if it had "realistic" styles, because TEH FEELZ of the game couldn't be expressed in any other style, not even SS's style.



Despite my arguments against these points, I am not against a realistic style. I just feel the reasons listed were ridiculous for a Zelda game. I would prefer to see an artistic/realistic hybrid like the tech demo that leans more toward realism or OoT3D that leans more toward anime, but complete realism could also be captivating. Nintendo is creative, and their designers' creativity is not limited to cartoony styles. Adapting such a style for any of the reasons the OP listed is not acceptable. There needs to be an inherent need for it. Aonuma's statement in a recent interview is something I think more fans need to think about:

"The thing about Zelda is we want everything to be unique, whether it’s the graphical presentation or the gameplay. It has to be something you can’t see anywhere else. We wouldn’t want it to be ultra-realistic because you can see that elsewhere. But I can’t say that it’s going to be cartoony-realistic like you mentioned, the fantastic presentation that we’ve already done in the past. It will be something new." -Eiji Aonuma
 
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Even though I think Skyward Sword's art style stemmed partially from Nintendo wanting to mask how obsolete the Wii's graphical capabilities were by the time it was released, I also have to agree with ILU here. Just because Nintendo has an HD capable system doesn't mean they have to use a realistic art style now. Again, I think it would make sense to give Twilight Princess-style graphics another chance for the next game. Despite my own issues with some of its presentation, many more fans loved how it looked. Even I have to admit that I can't see how Nintendo could have pulled off TP's atmosphere with a more cartoony style, even if that's what I usually prefer Zelda to look like. Art style in any game should always be based on expressing its overarching feel and theme. In this regard you could say both Wind Waker and TP were successful in their own unique ways.

I'm glad somebody finally pointed out how much OoT and TP were inspired by anime artistically. It's always been very obvious to me. :cool:
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Nintendo said the art style for the new game won't be realistic or cartoony, it will be something new for the Zelda series.

Also, just because Wii U is a next gen console, doesn't mean Zelda Wii U has to have a realistic art style. realistic art styles have been done to death on other game series, it will be more fun if Zelda kept to its own unique graphical style which isn't necessarily cartoony/anime-like.

But the Zelda game on it should make the best of the Wii U's graphical capabilities. If they go with a cartoon art style there is less detail that can be displayed, realistic at styles allow for more detail showing more impressive textures. Also it's been 7 years since a realistic Zelda, I think it's a good time to return to that art style. I think that you might be worried than a realistic art style will look too dull and not very colourful. I wouldn't want Zelda Wii U to look dull either. But an art style can look realistic while being artistic at the same time. I can show you some examples, but I think the Tech Demo did a great job of displaying a realistic art style that is still vibrant.

The thing is, it is sort of a reason to go for a realistic art style. Skyward Sword and Wind Waker's art style's were created to look good on the hardware, which is why Twilight Princess looks dated already. The Wii U has more power and has better capabilities, and it's also what fans want. If they're not going for a realistic look, then that's a shame. There still hasn't been a game on Wii U that shows it's full power quite like the Zelda Tech Demo did.

I agree completely, couldn't have said it better myself!

Exactly right. I really do desire that Wii U Tech Demo feel; that kind of art style is exactly what got TP's fantastic reception back at E3 2004. Fans want realism - it's partly why OoT is loved so much - and it definitely shows in games everywhere. Look at your generic "lolrealistic" games such as Battlefield and Call of Duty. They sell pretty :?ing well, and the poster boy for those games will always tell you "dis gaem is gud bcuz is realstic!!! lol zelda is 4 kidz". Doesn't that sort of want you to make a realistic or realistic-esque Zelda game to show those people wrong and still attract a ton of costumers?

Now, don't jump to the conclusion that realistic means dark color palette and stuff. It doesn't. We can still have realistic proportions and proper coloring. :)


Like you said, the realistic art style allows for more sales with Nintendo and it would benefit them, not only that but it would also please a lot of fans. And with 7 years of waiting for an art style akin to TP (Or OoT's semi realism) now would be the perfect opportunity to bring it back with the new next generation technology with the Wii U's hardware. I think that the Tech Demo's art style demonstrated the Wii U's graphical capabilities amazingly, I really was hoping that Zelda Wii U would look similar too it.

You also mentioned that games like CoD and Battlefield have realistic art styles and sell well. But you said that Zelda Wii U dosen't need to look like it, it can still look realistic while colourful, vibrant, and artistic. A perfect example of this is Halo's art style, realistic but still colourful:

Tk6uU2u.jpg


I'd still rather Zelda Wii U look more like the Zelda Tech demo, but this shows that games can have realistic graphics while simultaneously looking magical, colourful, and artistic.

I believe the Wii U Tech Demo model of Link is the best suit for Zelda U. Don't get me wrong, I actually think the modified Wind Waker graphics look pretty good, it's just that a more realistic approach is something that I prefer. That being said, I don't think we'll get the Tech Demo model of Link in the end. From what I've seen, previous tech demos/trailers never showed the actual finished product of Link and his appearance. If anything, it's best to compare TWWHD Link to SSB4 Link, who's more than likely the Link we'll get for Zelda U. Regardless, I feel the franchise should take and use the most realistic model.

I agree. Wind Waker has a pretty art style, but the more cartoon esque an art style, the less detail. Zelda Wii U should utilize an art style that has
a lot of detail so the textures and other graphical aspects can be used to the best of the Wii U's ability.

I completely want a more realistic game, so please don't take this next bit the wrong way...

If LoZ games already sell the best in North America, wouldn't it make sense to appeal to those not in North America by utilizing more anime-styled graphics? Then it'd be more from the rest of the world, and us Americans are still crazy over the series because... it's amazing.

That was my only comment on the OP, but I do have to say why I think a realistic-looking game would be awesome.

First off, Skyward Sword would have gotten high marks no matter the graphics, so we can't go around saying that a graphics can make or break a game that much (We're still going to play it, just admit it). I think that a more realistic game is what we need for the simple reason that if it looks real, it's more believable. My problem with WW was that the water looked like clay. The people looked like clay. ALL CLAY.

But in Twilight Princess, you got a feel for the wind and the rain and how it affects people and what creatures would look like if they were real. The appeal of the series to me (Or part of it, at least) is being able to relate to it.... and I'm not made of clay last I checked.

So yeah, I hope that Nintendo has upped the graphics A LOT (After all, they did say that we'd see a whole new graphic point of view to the LoZ series, and a more realistic, shadowy, whatnoty Zelda game would fit that description.)

Indeed, on another note if they stray away from the way the Tech Demo looked, it will be a whole repeat of the Spaceworld 2000 incident, and that would be bad for Nintendo financially. Wind Waker was a great game in my oppinion, but it did not sell well. As a result Nintendo (for the first time in their history) listened to their fans and gave Twilight Princess a realistic art style, the reaction to the trailer was immense, along with the sales.

Source:

In 2003, Nintendo announced that a new Zelda game was underway for the GameCube,[29] developed by the same team that created the cel-shaded The Wind Waker.[30] A presentation by director Eiji Aonuma contained a reference to the working title The Wind Waker 2,[31] and it was said to use a similar graphical style.[32] Nintendo of America told Aonuma that North American sales of The Wind Waker were sluggish because the cartoon appearance created the impression that the game was designed for a young audience. Concerned that the sequel would have the same problem, Aonuma expressed to fellow designer Shigeru Miyamoto that he wanted to create a realistic Zelda game that would appeal to the North American market. In turn, Miyamoto was concerned about merely changing the presentation instead of coming up with new gameplay ideas. He told Aonuma that he should start by doing what could not be done in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, particularly horseback combat.[33]

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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I do feel that Ihave to say that Twilight Princess's art style was not de facto realism - it was still in the stylised world as evidenced by body proportions (especially the eyes) - but it is thus far the one style that leans closest to realism. Realism has a part in color palette as well. TESV: Skyrim with 100 mods shows a damn good realistic world imo:
ku-xlarge.jpg


But there's also a very important thing. If it's gonna have realistic art style, please make the geography realistic as well. Don't plop us in "Eldin Volcano" but really make it "Eldin Obstacle course with a Volcano in the background". The locations have to feel genuine, not saying it has to be 1:1 with real life geography but a mountain range needs to have many traversable irregularities, not some paved way for you to run through.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
No and I'll tell you why: that's a shift in the demographic you're appealing to. If person A buys 100 copies of art A while person B and C only buy 10 copies (collectively) of art A, why would you try to make an art B to appeal to person B and C when you already have person A working hard for you? By releasing art B you run the risk of alienating person A who is already a proven customer. I'm not saying you should forget about B and C - because they can be a valuable asset - but the ideal is that you want to milk person A dry before you try to move onto B and C. ;)

Besides, stylized graphics like OoT3D made me want to rip a hole into the ground. Those ears were WAY too pointy and the eyes were WAY too big. Q_Q

Nintendo claims that they want to be original by going with unique art styles, but in my eyes it's not original when all the art styles that they have used in the past 7 years have been very cartoon esque. It's not quite originality if the same thing is done over and over again repeatedly. I think some variation would be nice, after 7 years it would be a good time to switch back to a more realistic art style.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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And one more thing. Wouldn't you want a repeat of this:
[video=youtube;uXrsK8ICp8E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXrsK8ICp8E[/video]

?

As a company, you want fans to be uber excited about your product, no? Reaction to Skyward Sword was mixed upon its reveal, for two reasons: 1) that E3 fail lol 2) the art style was a huge betrayal to TP as well as the leaked artwork we got. We saw swordless Link in TP-esque art, but what we got was a TP-TWW hybrid. Disappointing, right? Indeed. ZeldaU Tech Demo art style is just the right way to go, but Nintendo is busy trying to find even more different styles. I can't blame them - imagination is a good thing - but I really just want to see my beautiful TP Link in action again.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Wow dude, nice first post. I agree, I want Zelda Wii U to look realistic. My only problem with the tech demo look, is that Link looks like he's spent too much time in the tanning booth. Also, I definitely like the look of SSB4 Link, wouldn't mind seeing that at all. If we get a mix of the TP and SS look, I'd be happy. Details, but with bright, beautiful colors. I want to look at Hyrule Castle and be moved to tears by how beautiful it looks. But Aonuma has already said that we're going to see something new, so I guess we really don't have any clue.

Thank you! How very kind of you to say that. I am really liking the Zelda Dungeon (ZD) forums community (A LOT more than the Zelda Universe (ZU) forums community, but don't tell them I said that!). I've spent some time in ZU making forums, and I decided to bring one of my ZU forums to ZD. You said that you want Hyrule Castle to move you to tears from it's beauty. I thought that Twilight Princess's Hyrule castle was gorgeous in terms of design and graphically. I wonder if SSB Wii U's Hyrule castle is any clue of how it will look in Zelda Wii U (if Zelda Wii U is set in the kingdom of Hyrule, which I really hope it is. It's time to return to Zelda's initial setting and genre, just like how it's time to return to it's TP realistic art style or even OoT's semi realistic.)

Smash Bros Zelda Wii U.jpg

I'm not a fan of realistic graphics to be honest. The way I see it, games that aim to have realistic graphics tend to be less successful than games that don't use realistic graphics. The Nintendo 3DS's recent games like Fire Emblem Awakening, Luigi's Mansion 2 and many more others are evidence of that. With a Series like Zelda which generates alot of money anyway, I don't think realistic graphics will help increase those sales, in fact I think they will slightly decrease total sales because it wouldn't appeal to that many people.

With the appearance of Link in the New Super Smash Bros, I think Nintendo will use that model as a base for Zelda U and apply their "new" artstyle over it. I have nothing against realistic graphics really, but I just don't see it benefiting Zelda very much.

Fire Emblem has semi realistic graphics, like OoT. The thing is that a realistic Zelda would look better on the Wii U than a cartoon Zelda on the Wii U. Nintendo should use the 3DS for cartoon looking Zelda games. The Wii U should use an art style that the 3DS cannot handle as well.

Ven... FFXIII and MGS4 aren't realistic. <_<

MGS4 is very unrealistic in terms of gameplay and plot (featuring things such as "Cyborg Ninjas"). However visually it is very realistic. Final Fantasy is unrealistic in terms of gameplay and plot, but the art style is semi realistic. We still want Zelda to be unrealistic in terms of gameplay and plot for that magical fantasy feel. But a lot of fans (including myself) would like to see a visually realistic looking Zelda, similar to the Zelda Tech Demo.

Well, they are pretty realistic as far as Zelda standards go. FFXIII certainly tries to be very realistic.

Need for Speed, CoD, FF, and GTA are among the best selling game franchises of all time, and as far as Zelda goes, they are very realistic.

Halo is also a best selling game franchise up there with CoD, it uses a realistic art style, except one that is alot more colourful and vibrant.

I bet most of those games you listed sold because of the gameplay rather than the fact that they have realistic graphics. Obviously these games did pretty well because it has a huge fanbase, I highly doubt realistic graphics was the main reason people picked up a copy.

Realism however appeals a lot to NA (Nintendo's largest consumers) and in trailers it a looks a lot more eye catching resulting in better sales. If the game wasn't good after the initial sales it wouldn't sell well. So yes, you are right that gameplay is important for it to sell well, it's the core selling factor. But before the game comes out people have not played the game, and have nothing to judge the game on other than looks. And if the game looks realistic and impressive, the initial sales will be immense. But if the gameplay is indeed lacking, after the initial sales the sales will die down. And it won't sell well overall.

FFXIII? LOL everyone hated the gameplay. People certainly didn't buy the game for music. The story was often cited as crappy. So...? GRAFIX.
Battlefield and CoD are generic shooters. People don't get them for story or for gameplay mechanics; they get them for TEH GRAFIX!1EON.
RDR has great everything, so I concede for that game.
MGS4 has great everything as well, so I concede for that game.

I don't know that much about FFXIII, so I can't comment on that, but I agree with the rest of your statement.
 
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I think it's good for Nintendo to vary artstyle.

For a company that claims to innovate consistently to spur player interest, it's been relying more and more on already established visuals like New Super Mario Bros. and cel-shaded Zelda. Although it opened to skeptical reception, a lot of people appreciate The Wind Waker for the change it brought, both graphic and story wise. Nintendo easily could have used its Spaceworld engine for the first Gamecube Zelda, but rater than continue the realistic trend, it chose a lighter, more whimsical style. Now it's time for the reverse. Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and The Wind Waker HD have rendered cel-shading boring and predictable. Heck, Nintendo's so infatuated with the look, it chose to adopt an altered version for Skyward Sword.

Looking back at Zelda's chronology, I consider three distinct art stlyes: Overhead, realistic 3D, and cel-shaded 3D. The first four Zelda games, the Oracles, and The Minish Cap fall into the first category; Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess belong to the second; the third is composed of The Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword. We've seen a lot of the last recently, and a Link Between Worlds will revive overworld Zelda. Now it's time to focus on something more realistic. As HyainKnight pointed out, a lot of people incorrectly assume realistic means darker. Ocarina of Time is a realistic Zelda game, yet only in select locations like the Royal Family's Tomb and Shadow Temple is it "dark".

Crafting a more realistic Zelda world is sure to expand Nintendo's userbase. There are a lot of people who play games like Skyrim that would gladly return to the Action-Adventure front if it offered titles that closer resemble real life. Gameplay will always be the fundamental component of a videogame experience, but it's also nice to stop and take a gander at the environments on display. Some of the set pieces in modern phenomenons like The Last of Us are absolutely gorgeous, and I can spend over ten minutes taking them in. A lot of people ask what the next revolutionary phase for Zelda is. Nintendo needs to refine contemporary game settings. A large, detailed overworld complete with player interaction like destructible environments, day-night cycles, weather patterns, and Miiverse integration is the next logical step.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
I honestly don't see why we all act like we NEED a more realistic style. I understand most people were upset at Wind Waker because it featured Toon-Link, which I really don't have a problem with. I actually enjoy the "toon" look to the games, especially from Wind Waker's perspective. If the Wii-U started to focus only on graphics just because it would sell more and in turn get them more money, what makes them any better than the money-hogs up at Microsoft when they wanted us to pay for even the silliest little fees. My point I'm trying to make is, let's not look at the unrealistic features as a bad thing, it really doesn't effect how good the actual game is. I loved the Wind Waker and absolutely loved Skyward Sword despite the "cartoonish" looks. I think graphics shouldn't be the basis on whether you like or hate a game. That's just ignorant, so is saying that the series would stay "cartoony forever." Any true Zelda fan wouldn't ask for better graphics, but a better gameplay and story line. Realistic or unrealistic, it's still The Legend Of Zelda, and graphics shouldn't pin it to how good the whole series is.

The Wii U should focus alot on graphics because of it's hardware and capabilities, they should not be wasted. At the end of the day gameplay is more important, but now that Nintendo actually has the power to create stunning visuals with the Wii U, they should seize this opportunity. The reason that I claim Zelda might be cartoony forever is because it has been 7 long years since a realistic or semi realistic looking Zelda game. If Zelda Wii U is cartoony (which wouldn't be making as good use of the Wii U's graphical capabilities compared to a more realistic looking art style, such as the tech demo) that would mark 8 or 9 years of absence of the semi-realistic/realistic art style in Zelda. Meaning we would have to wait until 2018 for a realistic Zelda (marking 13 years since a semi-realistic/realistic art style) and that is if they give the second Zelda Wii U a realistic art style. Meaning essentially Nintendo will have given up on that art style leaving Zelda cartoony forever. I feel that there should be more balance. I think that Wind Waker did look pretty, I don't have an issue with cartoon graphics. But after the recent games being non stop cartoon esque in art style, I think some variation is needed. And the Wii U with it's superior hardware to the Wii, allows for a great opportunity to give the next Zelda game a realistic (or semi-realistic) art style.

I feel like this point is outdated. Toward the middle-to-end of last gen consoles, more artistic and whimsical styles (and comic-book-ish) have been preferred over realistic styles, and often they are artistic models merged with realistic surroundings. Borderlands, Bayonetta, Enslaved, Bioshock Infinite, Darksiders/II, Okami, Muramasa, Persona, Prince of Persia, Final Fantasy 13, No More Heroes/II, Catherine, and so on are only a FEW of the examples. Realistic styles seem to be reserved for shooters in most cases, and more and more games are taking to the artistic trend.

Twilight Princess didn't sell soley because it was "realistic" (which is really isn't realistic aside from some architectural designs), it's biggest selling point was that it was OoT 2.0, and TWW and SS clearly aren't. OoT is very, very anime styled, not realistic. TP is anime-styled with realistic (somewhat) textures and lighting. OoT is quite vibrant, and visually, the only things they really have in common are character models styles (OoT not having melon-headed NPCs). That said, I feel like "Western gamers liek teh realz bro" is a terrible excuse to adopt realistic styles. Zelda may sell more in the west, but that doesn't warrant abandoning or stifling creativity to conform to what is currently popular. Zelda's unique styles have always been and should always be timeless.


I can't disagree with you here, however, I wouldn't say SS is cartoony. The Wind Waker is cartoony, and Skyward Sword is more anime-meets-classical art. The styles are vastly different and lumping them together in one "cartoony" category is an injustice to the series and the creativity of the designers.

Again, TP wasn't realistic aside from a few textures and lighting (and SOME architecture), but the realistic-meets-anime style is something Nintendo could definitely revisit and improve on. The tech demo is a clear example of how this can be done. In it, Link looks far more "cartoony" than he did in Twilight Princess, but the realistic textures with the more artistic colors are pleasing to the eye. Not much can be said for the world design since all we saw was the cathedral-like setting, but it was designed to look "realistic", and it was pretty. It was another example of how realism and artistic styles can be refreshing and beautiful when merged together.


I cannot agree with you. Realistic style ≠ more or less detail. Artistic styles can have just as much, more, or less detail depending on the designers' choices. There is a ton of realistic art that is simplistic and lacking in detail, and there is a ton of whimsical/fantasy art that is overflowing with detail. To say that detail is dependent on the level of realism is a laughable statement. To imply that embracing a more artistic style over a realistic one is a "waste" of HD capabilities is an ignorant and crude statement, and Bioshock Infinite is a visually-great game to support my point.


The great thing about Nintendo is that they have always been able to make up for what they lack in power with creative presentation. Just because they now have a console capable of HD graphics doesn't mean that they should abandon that creative design. The Wind Waker would have been a miserable failure of a game if it had "realistic" styles, because TEH FEELZ of the game couldn't be expressed in any other style, not even SS's style.



Despite my arguments against these points, I am not against a realistic style. I just feel the reasons listed were ridiculous for a Zelda game. I would prefer to see an artistic/realistic hybrid like the tech demo that leans more toward realism or OoT3D that leans more toward anime, but complete realism could also be captivating. Nintendo is creative, and their designers' creativity is not limited to cartoony styles. Adapting such a style for any of the reasons the OP listed is not acceptable. There needs to be an inherent need for it. Aonuma's statement in a recent interview is something I think more fans need to think about:

"The thing about Zelda is we want everything to be unique, whether it’s the graphical presentation or the gameplay. It has to be something you can’t see anywhere else. We wouldn’t want it to be ultra-realistic because you can see that elsewhere. But I can’t say that it’s going to be cartoony-realistic like you mentioned, the fantastic presentation that we’ve already done in the past. It will be something new." -Eiji Aonuma

Even though your reply opposes my opinion, I respect it. It is far better than the replies that I get in the Zelda Universe variant of this forum (I need to be quiet... I don't want them to hear me :O). Right now what I am doing is going through all the comments on page one and two and replying to them all at once (since I didn't have time to do so before), this is resulting in a long chain of replies by me on one post instead of each in an individual post (which I find rather irritating), but I feel that my reply to you deserves a special post of it's own. I will reply to your argument later.

Even though I think Skyward Sword's art style stemmed partially from Nintendo wanting to mask how obsolete the Wii's graphical capabilities were by the time it was released, I also have to agree with ILU here. Just because Nintendo has an HD capable system doesn't mean they have to use a realistic art style now. Again, I think it would make sense to give Twilight Princess-style graphics another chance for the next game. Despite my own issues with some of its presentation, many more fans loved how it looked. Even I have to admit that I can't see how Nintendo could have pulled off TP's atmosphere with a more cartoony style, even if that's what I usually prefer Zelda to look like. Art style in any game should always be based on expressing its overarching feel and theme. In this regard you could say both Wind Waker and TP were successful in their own unique ways.

I'm glad somebody finally pointed out how much OoT and TP were inspired by anime artistically. It's always been very obvious to me. :cool:

I feel that Zelda Wii U should use a realistic art style now, it demonstrates the consoles capabilities the best. You feel that Zelda games should use an art style based off of the plot and the vibe, I agree. But I also think that Zelda Wii U should use an art style based off the console. And the Tech Demo showed us a realistic art style similar to Twilgiht Princess. I think that this is the best choice for Zelda Wii U's visual apperance.

Also, OoT and TP are only anime inspired in terms of the characters faces, the proportions of the characters (with exceptions for a few characters, like the doctor in TP), and the environments are realistic in those two games. Overall both games are semi realistic, the only thing that is truly cartoony about them are the character's faces.
 
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Ventus

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The Wii U should focus alot on graphics because of it's hardware and capabilities, they should not be wasted. At the end of the day gameplay is more important, but now that Nintendo actually has the power to create stunning visuals with the Wii U, they should seize this opportunity. The reason that I claim Zelda might be cartoony forever is because it has been 7 long years since a realistic or semi realistic looking Zelda game. If Zelda Wii U is cartoony (which wouldn't be making as good use of the Wii U's graphical capabilities compared to a more realistic looking art style, such as the tech demo) that would mark 8 or 9 years of absence of the semi-realistic/realistic art style in Zelda. Meaning we would have to wait until 2018 for a realistic Zelda (marking 13 years since a semi-realistic/realistic art style) and that is if they give the second Zelda Wii U a realistic art style. Meaning essentially Nintendo will have given up on that art style leaving Zelda cartoony forever. I feel that there should be more balance. I think that Wind Waker did look pretty, I don't have an issue with cartoon graphics. But after the recent games being non stop cartoon esque in art style, I think some variation is needed. And the Wii U with it's superior hardware to the Wii, allows for a great opportunity to give the next Zelda game a realistic (or semi-realistic) art style.

What I bolded are issues. Firstly, we don't know when Zelda U will release. It could be 2015, and that's the year I'm really leaning on. After all we had footage for TP but it released two years later. We had footage for SS and it released a year iirc later. If I recall, we had footage for TWW and it released two years later as well. We have no footage, however, for ZeldaU so I'm really leaning on 2015 being our release year.

Secondly, there is no confirmation on whether we'll have two Zeldas for WiiU. Yes, the N64 (OoT and MM) and GCN had two Zeldas (TWW and TP), but the Wii only had one (Skyward Sword). TPWii was a last minute port. The trend seems to be "release first Zelda game, and if there's time, release a second fo rthe same system". After all MM came at the N64's deathbed, as did TPGC for GCN, as did Skyward Sword for Wii. We're already heading into year two for the Wii U, so will there be time for a second Zelda?

All this is linked to wait time for a graphically impressive - taking the system into account - Zelda title. :I
 

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