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The Trouble with Tridents

Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
Okay, for a long time, people have stated that the Trident in FSA is the same as the one in LttP. I beg to differ, so let's have a serious discussion about it. Now it makes sense for Ganondorf to wield a Trident, as he's so tall. However, are all the tridents he uses the same one? Let's look at all the games that he uses them in:

LttP
The trident is white and has two of the prongs curved up with a skull between them.

OoT
It's Phantom Ganon that uses it, but we should still consider it. The trident is grey and has two of the prongs splayed to the sides with a gemstone between them (well a little lower than that, but you get the idea).

OoX
The trident is white and has two of the prongs curved up. There is also a skull on the pummel of the weapon. It is almost identical to the one used in LttP

FSA
The Trident is grey and has two of the prongs angled up with a gemstone between them. The two prongs on the side are the only differences between this and the trident in OoT.

You can't give me the "different design teams" argument. That was only a problem once for the Master Sword, and the remake of LttP rectified that. In the original LttP, the hilt of the Master Sword was red, rather than blue. The same team that worked on that remake worked on FSA and used the same engine. Yet they didn't reuse the trident from LttP.
 

DuckNoises

Gone (Wind) Fishin'
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Location
Montreal, QC, Canada
Are you suggesting that we use differences in how the tridents are designed to infer information about the timeline? Generally, aesthetics of any given thing are secondary to things like the state of the Triforce or analysis of a given game's backstory. What is the initial argument here?
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
You forgot one.

Ganont_1.gif

Anyways, the maps of Hyrule are different in each Zelda game too. Ganon is different or slightly similar in Zelda games that he appears in also.

What makes the design of the trident any different here?
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
You say it can't be because of different design teams/art styles but... that's really all it is... The original Master Sword in ALttP did have a blue hilt whenever you drew it and had red DESIGNS on it, but the handle itself wasn't actually red. From what you've been saying it sounds like the trident sounds mostly the same bar some slight aesthetic changes for the games artstyle. Even the master Sword undergoes slight variations from game to game. The length in TP, the hilt in WW is slightly differently designed, in SS the hilt creeps up the blade more than the other games.

Artstyles are going to change parts of a game. These slight changes to the trident just sound like that... art style differences.
 

JamesBond007

Indigo Child
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Location
Krosno, Poland
I consider OoT Trident to be different from the other ones, because it it used by Phantom Ganon, not real Ganon. In the final battle, Ganondorf does not have the Trident, neither Ganon.

Trying to build "Four Swords/Trident" timeline, we should start from Four Swords Adventures, because both Four Sword and Trident does make an appearance. This is also the Trident's backstory.

Four Swords is the direct prequel and The Minish Cap takes place in previous generation - TMC--FS/FSA.

It is unexplained how Ganon was able to escape from the Four Sword, but this leads to Imprisoning/Seal War and A Link to the Past - TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP.

Oracle games will take place between ALttP and LA for the following reasons:
- Sprites similarities (yes, I'm not kidding)
- going further into this - OoX Zelda and LA Marin sprites are similar, and Link in LA confuses Marin with Zelda.
- end of OoX shows Link on a boat similar to LA's one.
Current timeline - TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/LA.

Some people consider OoX Zelda to be different than ALttP Zelda due to few text lines in the game. There might be possibility that Oracle games and Link's Awakening features completely new Link, and LA is no longer a direct sequel to ALttP, even counting OoX between them, which makes this timeline possible - TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP--OoX/LA.

And finally, The Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link. I think OoX Ganon resurrected with side effects does not die at the end, but returns much later. His tactics during the final battle might support this - he quickly teleports himself from one place to another and shoots fireballs. Now it's time for the Trident. Appearance might be debatable, but this is interesting:

Ganon12.png

attachment.php

119px-Gannon.png


Yes, artwork and BS Zelda. Although the Trident does not appear in the original 8-bit Zelda, it appears in BS Zelda and on the official artwork. Also, BS Zelda is a Satellaview game an does not feature Link, but it is basically a remake of original Zelda. Other than original version with the timer, modified "timeless" and "Link" versions have been created.

Final Four Swords/Trident Timeline - TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/LA--TLoZ/TAoL.

Now there is a question - where to place this chain? I think there are only 3 possibilities:
- after Skyward Sword, creating another split in the timeline.
- after Twilight Princess.
- after Spirit Tracks.
But unfortunately, there are flaws in any placement.
 
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Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
Are you suggesting that we use differences in how the tridents are designed to infer information about the timeline? Generally, aesthetics of any given thing are secondary to things like the state of the Triforce or analysis of a given game's backstory. What is the initial argument here?
The claim is that, because Ganondorf gets the Trident in FSA, it must come just before LttP. They also claim that FSA is the Sealing War, which it clearly isn't. But that's another issue. My point is that the tridents that Ganon uses are never anything alike. You could get away with saying that the trident in LttP and OoX are the same, as they are the most similar.

You say it can't be because of different design teams/art styles but... that's really all it is... The original Master Sword in ALttP did have a blue hilt whenever you drew it and had red DESIGNS on it, but the handle itself wasn't actually red. From what you've been saying it sounds like the trident sounds mostly the same bar some slight aesthetic changes for the games artstyle. Even the master Sword undergoes slight variations from game to game. The length in TP, the hilt in WW is slightly differently designed, in SS the hilt creeps up the blade more than the other games.

Artstyles are going to change parts of a game. These slight changes to the trident just sound like that... art style differences.
I took a look, and you are right about the Master Sword. The handle is red, but the hilt itself is bluish-grey. However, aside from making it a dark blue in OoT, how many changes in the design are obvious at first glance? The wings were altered a bit in WW and some green tape was added to the hilt in TP. These are aesthetic changes. I'm talking basic design. The Master Sword is always a greatsword with a winged hilt that has been navy blue since OoT. LttP is the only exception to this fact. So what are the similar asthetic designs for the Trident?

Here's another example, despite different design teams in each game, Zelda is always perfectly recognizable. Unlike Link, she doesn't have a universal outfit. The basic design of her clothes always changes, but her appearance does not. The appearance of the tridents are all different.
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
They're all aesthetic though... it's a matter of main theme. For instance, Zelda has blonde hair a pink, regal dress. It's always formal and always elegant. That's how Zelda's character is set up. Link's had a few changes from no tights, to white tights, to brown tights, to even having chainmail under his tunic. They're small changes and the Trident isn't a very prominent part of the story as much as the Master Sword and Four Sword are. It's there, yes, but the changes are just slight, as in color or art style design depending on the game. They're not overly large changes but are still there.

Look at Ganon's changes... Ganon has been a demon pig with a trident, a very ominous demon pig with two golden swords, a large feral beast pig, and even a puppet. While all of these are rather big and different changes, they are all still Ganon.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Portland
Yes, artwork and BS Zelda. Although the Trident does not appear in the original 8-bit Zelda, it appears in BS Zelda and on the official artwork.
First of all, that is NOT official artwork. That art only appeared in a strategy guide for A Link to the Past to tell the back story of the previous two games. That strategy guide is rife with extremely inaccurate non-Nintendo inventions. Also, that same strategy guide features art by the same guy showing Link holding the Triforce of Power, which is comprised of three triangles (like the real full Triforce) and Zelda holding the Triforce of Wisdom which is also comprised of three triangles like the complete Triforce. That art cannot be taken seriously let alone cannon.

Also, BS Zelda is a Satellaview game an does not feature Link, but it is basically a remake of original Zelda. Other than original version with the timer, modified "timeless" and "Link" versions have been created.
...created by fans. Not officially by Nintendo. Besides, they're the BS games. They're definitely not cannon. Jeeze. Next you're going to be saying that Link and Sheik were involved in a gay relationship (even though Sheik is a girl) because some fanfic says so, or that the Triforce of Wisdom is actually green because the cartoon says so.
 
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