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Mafia 8: Twilight Princess Game Thread

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Keyshe

Whoo are youu?
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Location
U.S.A., Lost in a forest.
I'm really not sure what to think of this, not after playing Mafia games here in the past. Every game I have been in had the game QT to chat with all other deceased players.

Ark claiming vig really threw me off, especially claiming the role and name in a short post before giving the wincon. It really seemed like another one of those "I'm too important to lose" kind of situations.
... I know what you are saying, to make matters worse his behavior is not improving if not getting worse. It's like he isn't taking any responsibility that he needs act town and make himself look trust worthy. He got under suspicion himself, he isn't even trying to defend or explain... but more or less blaming us. First game I played with him he was a cop, and he wasn't claiming and acting all you will be sorry if you lynch me and blaming anyone then for suspicion. I have strong doubts his wincon could have been faked, that is a little too specific to just guess. But he is playing very scummy and as a poor town who really doesn't get it, he isn't the only player in this game and it doesn't work if he plays only for himself. He got to work for the town and with us.

And Ninten* last game I played with him he was like this too and town. But saying he is busy and not even paying attention doesn't mean in anyway he its town. He could easily be milking it as scum or the exact same scenario for him is happening as scum. I am really wondering why he keeps joining these game when he doesn't play/have time. I have no idea what he is, there is nothing to get a read on.

This is going to be a long game... it's hard to find scum when the towns don't want to play town. Or play.

@Keyshe

Well nothing's stopping you from voting on me, if your suspicions are really that high. But when you see that you were wrong, well, there's nothing I can say.
Ark... you had three vote on you for a reason. You were growing in suspicion by your action, posts and all the avoiding of questioning. Now with all your crazy claiming people where backing off, then you again start off again with odd comments that don't quite work. And I bring them up and ask you about them and you are still deflecting and avoiding again?! How are we to trust you, how can I when I give you an inch and here you are daring me to vote for you because you don't want to give any explanations?!

Here you are saying nothing is stopping me... are you really saying your claim are faulty and full of holes? You know what I've said, your wincon matches up. Logic and facts from your PM are stopping from voting.


No, I'm not. I'm not talking about Ark AT ALL. I'm talking about Komali. Komali said that the one Ark gave was identical. Now I JUST went back and re-read Komali's post and now I understand what he said. The word identical didn't click in my head when I read it. And now I take back what I said about Komali. I am sorry for any confusion.
... so what did you think it said?
I don't know about you... you stuck out to me since your first post. How did identical not click?! You quoted him and were very clear you were talking about the potential identicalness of an altered wincon you made. Were you trying to trick him into admitting he was scum or were trying to implicate him in the eyes of the town on something you made up... ?

To me you are coming off rather insidious. Please I'd love some sort of explanation of this and my last comment on you a post or two ago.


Go Dark Link I'd love it if I got more comment from you on my post to you/about you a while back when you get the time.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Someone care to explain to me why Go_Dark_Link is a suspect?
He implied he was town on the first day, this is without a doubt suspicious.

Here he is using bad logic trying to cover for himself. He is showing that he has been backed into a corner.
Everyone claims they are Town. You can basically assume that is their stance without bothering to ask, so I fail to see where you're coming from at all. And his "bad logic", is...?

Go_Dark_Link said:
Or maybe it is the fact I stopped posting because I had homework to do? Hmm, who knows. Anyways, I didn't know saying you are town makes you scum. Quick, everyone say you're scum so we think you are town.
While I maintain that inactivity is at least partially scummy regardless of reason, he's supplying legitimate reasoning. There is no basis, from this post, for you to suspect him. It would make more sense if you were already suspicious of his inactivity and willing to accept his excuse but... uh... you're basing your suspicion on a legitimate excuse?


To be honest, I really find nothing suspicious about that.

Or maybe, he was just poking fun at what Hero of Time said:

Cuz ya'know, this was a pretty dumb thing to say.
^


Also, i'm using the RVS as evidence.
Bottom line is RVS votes are rarely good evidence.


I seem to recall that Green Goron said he used random.org. There's no way you can really use that as evidence, because that was totally random. The only thing we can really get him for is the Go_Dark_Link thing. Also, you can argue against it all you want, but RVS will always happen, ark. Even if it's on someone who hasn't posted yet.
Unless he lied? Since, you know, that's a basic element of Mafia? Similarly, for the second bolded part, yeah, RVS happen a lot but it's not true that they happen all the time nor is it true that it's a flawless method of starting the game (even though, and Ark take notice RVS can be a legitimate tactic). Bottom line is it's legitimate to disagree with it. I myself don't random vote; it isn't my style.

Maybe we could base our arguments on more than one thing, and preferably not something that relies on total honesty?


Seems like scum. If he is scum then he would know who is scum already so he wouldn't feel that he had to investigate and look for scumtell in posts. So he says this as a secret message to his fellow mafia so that they can tell him what is going on.
*sigh* That's shallow reasoning.


I found you suspicious because you let him know what was going on. He was too lazy to read so he askes one of his fellow mafia in secrect code to tell him what is going on. You, the fellow mafia, let him know because you saw the code and decided that it's not a bad thing to help out your mafia buddys. By the way, if your thinking of questioning the whole secret message thing, don't. I've seen it before in a mafia game when my two sisters were playing.

This sounds scummy to me. Who said that we can't complain because it's the first day? Just because it's the first day doesn't mean you can RVS all over the place.
No, no, and no. Mafia, unlike Town, are allowed to convene in secret in... basically every game I have ever played. He has no need to request for information in secret code right in the thread.

Yeah it basically does. RVS is used to kickstart things, and after it goes on for a bit it segues into a real discussion and investigation (as it did already in this thread). It is not the only way to start up a real investigation, but it's plenty valid even though I don't practice it. Complaining about it is useless and pointless. Just don't do it.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
------------------------------------------------




EBWODP:

Would someone explain to me how any vote at all on Go_Dark_Link or Ninten* makes any kind of sense? Those are horrible lynches.

Even the votes on Arkvoodle were... paranoid. Yeah, his posts were nuts, but that doesn't make him auto-scum. Even his wacko claim is just more of the same.

Even Raindrop with her wild accusations for all kinds of strange reasons is a better lynch than any of those.


I don't believe willies are valid evidence for such an assumption.
False. Gut instincts about someone or sinister feelings from them are totally valid reasons to be suspicious. They have lead me to scum as Town, to the Mafia as Serial Killer, and to important Town power roles as Mafia. Gut instinct's power and use would surprise you, especially when you know the person well. Sadly, it is rarely an effective basis for a vote, as it lacks anything grounded that you can use to convince other people.


Axle the Beast said:
But seriously, let's not be uh... rash? Day 1 is rarely a good time for a speedlynch... I'm not sure if that's what's going on or not, but just throwing that out there.
Hasn't been happening for now.
Also false. As stated above, most of the votes at that point in the game were ridiculous.


You asked for the information. You got all the information. It was the only way I could 100% convince everyone and remove any possible suspicion. Though now i'm an open target for the mafia. I wish I didn't have to reveal everything, but whateva.
Or you could have given the best explanation you could while moving onto something constructive. Claiming and wincons are not the only way to alleviate suspicion, and doing any claiming on Day 1 is foolish.


I'm sticking out?

Srsly?

Hm.
Ya. A lot. I have the same thoughts on you that Hachi did just before this post of yours. Actually, as far as I'm concerned, you're probably a great candidate for lynch today.

Basically right now, Erebea's been way out there and being weird, even switching up his votes a lot from what I could see. Flip-flopping votes is a light scumtell, and can be telling when added to other evidence like your absurd aggression at... well, nothing more than shadows. Then of course you followed Ky like a puppy immediately after he voted for Raindrop. I'm suspicious of Raindrop too, but jeez man.

Vote: Erebea
 

Keyshe

Whoo are youu?
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Location
U.S.A., Lost in a forest.
I appreciate all these comments and posts Axle, it give me a lot to work with and analyze. I will have more to work with to figure out your personality this game. I appreciate if you are town trying to go through the thread and clean up some of the off topic-ness and poor logic but if you flip scum town should be offended XD

Everyone claims they are Town. You can basically assume that is their stance without bothering to ask, so I fail to see where you're coming from at all. And his "bad logic", is...?
Ah... maybe look at my post that covered GDL. It wasn't just that he said town... it's how out of place and odd it was. Yeah it might not have been anything, but it was a little odd and to me looked a little forced.

Axle the Beast said:
While I maintain that inactivity is at least partially scummy regardless of reason, he's supplying legitimate reasoning. There is no basis, from this post, for you to suspect him. It would make more sense if you were already suspicious of his inactivity and willing to accept his excuse but... uh... you're basing your suspicion on a legitimate excuse?
It could be a legitimate excuse, but he could be lying and stretching the truth too. Mind it was commented on about his inactivity before he came in and said why sarcastically. If he was just saying that to ToT I'd think it was legitimate too but there was a little more to what he did then throw a "hope the town wins this time." And more then one person was paying attention. I will say if someone says something like oh and guys I'm town out of the blue I'd find that odd and maybe a little scummy. It's trying too hard and not trust worthy at all. GDL is newish and might not have been thinking with that logic that-- anyone will and can say they are town, but with his sarcastic response he kinda knew it did he himself didn't he?

Axle said:
Unless he lied? Since, you know, that's a basic element of Mafia? Similarly, for the second bolded part, yeah, RVS happen a lot but it's not true that they happen all the time nor is it true that it's a flawless method of starting the game (even though, and Ark take notice RVS can be a legitimate tactic). Bottom line is it's legitimate to disagree with it. I myself don't random vote; it isn't my style.

Maybe we could base our arguments on more than one thing, and preferably not something that relies on total honesty?
Axle... Arks had not been just been disagreeing with RVSs and choosing to not use them he's been hamming on and on about them, criticizing people and trying to stop it. Going on that it is point less... but also necessary?. Also claiming that it's preventing any real discussion which is not/was true, as most RVS were just persons first posts. Things were moving onto real analysis.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Yeah, I don't exactly get this bandwagon on Raindrop... =/
I'm not joining that bandwagon, but only because I think Erebea looks a lot worse. The fact of the matter with Raindrop is all of her posts amount to a kind of aggressive finger-pointing, with no constructive end in mind. It's just baseless accusations.

I normally do not support lynching someone who's an active and dynamic participator in the game even if they seem iffy, because the subtle players are more likely to be scum, but Raindrop is... strange enough that given that it's Day 1, I think voting for her is legitimate, and far more so than Go_Dark_Link, Ninten* or even Arkvoodle.

That said, my vote remains on Erebea.


Ah... maybe look at my post that covered GDL. It wasn't just that he said town... it's how out of place and odd it was. Yeah it might not have been anything, but it was a little odd and to me looked a little forced.
Yeah I read that. You have a point, but I don't think it's truly that revealing as it can easily be a simple case of poor wording. Yes poor wording can indicate a scum slipup, but really, in my experience with the game that's rarely ever the case. It's not enough for me to warrant any serious action. Maybe if other weird stuff stacks up.


It could be a legitimate excuse, but he could be lying and stretching the truth too. Mind it was commented on about his inactivity before he came in and said why sarcastically. If he was just saying that to ToT I'd think it was legitimate too but there was a little more to what he did then throw a "hope the town wins this time." And more then one person was paying attention. I will say if someone says something like oh and guys I'm town out of the blue I'd find that odd and maybe a little scummy. It's trying too hard and not trust worthy at all. GDL is newish and might not have been thinking with that logic that-- anyone will and can say they are town, but with his sarcastic response he kinda knew it did he himself didn't he?
idk, I still think it was an ultimately baseless action. Or, perhaps rather than baseless, simplistic. It's too simple, too little, of a basis for any real accusation. I mean if you're just going to utter a sentence about it, sure, or if you're going to note it mentally. But to spout it off as an accusation in itself, that's excessive. Much of the thread has been crowded with that, which is primarily what I was directing my comments like the one you bolded: "Maybe we could base our arguments on more than one thing, and preferably not something that relies on total honesty?"

It just seems like people are acting confidently on very little. Maybe it's just a product of Day 1. Actually, that's more than likely, and in which case perhaps I should back off unless it persists.


Axle... Arks had not been just been disagreeing with RVSs and choosing to not use them he's been hamming on and on about them, criticizing people and trying to stop it. Going on that it is point less... but also necessary?. Also claiming that it's preventing any real discussion which is not/was true, as most RVS were just persons first posts. Things were moving onto real analysis.
Yes but this is the basic misconception by tons of players about RVS's. It happens in every game, and it comes from a number of players. It's not really scummy. I don't even think you can consider that a scummy element that should be noted for the future. Ark's just being grouchy about a small thing he doesn't fully understand. If he was scum I think he would have backed off by now, or at the very least been restrained by his team-mates... unless they're bussing him.
 

Justeazy

Todo is the pfuf!
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Okay, I am starting to strongly believe that there's something more going on to Ark than a simple stupid vig.
In a worst-case-scenario I can see him being a Jester, Skull Kid maybe, and he's told all the town information (hello wincon) and given the fake claim of Link, and he loses if he claims or acts anything else, but if we lynch him when he's doing nothing but acting like a stupid roadblock for the town to get over, then he would win.
I don't think that's the case, but never know. Either way, I don't believe ark is really scum, but I also know he's smarter than this and better than this. Something here is more than it appears.

Everyone claims they are Town. You can basically assume that is their stance without bothering to ask, so I fail to see where you're coming from at all. And his "bad logic", is...?
The bad logic, is the fact that it's a base instinct to try to make other's believe your lies through subconscious cues. When spoken verbally, we all would have registered the meaning behind him saying "we town" but most likely nobody would have noticed it, but rather filed it away in the back of our brains as a little bump towards having a "gut feeling" that he's town. But when it's written and we get a chance to read it twelve or fourty-seven times, we notice the little, subtle clues that one could sneak in, even against their own knowledge, to try to convince us of the lies they may not even have told us yet.
</psychology lesson>
tl;dr: It's natural instinct to lie about things in this fashion, therefore it's scummy.



Erebea, I don't know if you're just a super-spammer, or if you're using your spam to stop yourself from doing anything real and thus giving away yourself. Either way, getting a little bit suspicious, and a lot bit annoying.
VOTE: Keyshe, seriously. She's been sticking out to me for the last long while, but I never could quite figure out why so I never bothered to say anything. But after reading through the past 14 pages about three times, I finally noticed it. At the end of practically all of her posts, she has a direct, personal message to another person. Mostly GDL and Axle. This is a very effective tactic to make others forget about you if your last words are significantly of another subject. It worked on me, but it's also the perfect tactic for a scum to hide in plain sight.
 

Keyshe

Whoo are youu?
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Location
U.S.A., Lost in a forest.
Axle where do you get off saying that they are horrible lynches/suspects? You come in here after ignoring this game for the most part, hell you always do that and you come in here and blame us for working with what we had, and what we gradually get? Also were is this high and mighty attitude coming from, really when was the last time you actually really lynched a scum as town? You are not infallible.

And for the fact my vote was not paranoid at all. I thought about it a lot thank you very much. What is with the " doesn't make him auto-scum" crap? I'm pretty damn sure few players think there are many absolutes in this game. You very well know all one can do is go with gut instinct and observation.
Axle said:
Would someone explain to me how any vote at all on Go_Dark_Link or Ninten* makes any kind of sense?
How about you re-read and not have condescending closed mindedness, all this anger really isn't necessary or appropriate. I recall you voting on someone based on claiming Wesley Crusher, on an obvious town too and being annoyed people thought that was scummy and ridiculous.

Axle said:
Even Raindrop with her wild accusations for all kinds of strange reasons is a better lynch than any of those.
Really? Ignoring the fact that there are already people moving on to her now, from the evidence and analysis that's come out from our experiments with votes and discussion?? Oh and that the Ark thing is already done, let alone was only 3 or 4 votes on him to begin with. That only happened because of his insistence on not being uncooperative and obstinate. Also mind you those vote weren't rushed on him either.

What is really ridiculous is this attitude of yours and the fact that if you are so certain of Erebea is THE proper lynch why aren't you building a better case, with quotes and all? You are actually voting like you usually do when you need a place holder for a vote to look good. (Which I believe you do regardless of role?)

I have more to say later on your latest post. But I'll get to that later I'm out of time and this is getting to long. I'm much rather take care of one subject before moving in on another.
 

Meego

~Dancer in the Dark~
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Location
England
I hate not being able to make an actual long reply. -.- However, I think ark chose the wrong way to go about claiming, but nobody has counter claimed and tonight many things could happen. If the doctor protects then ark could be roleblocked but that could clear him in a way; we can judge it by how many people get killed and who they are. I don't think raindrop is our best lead atm but right now I want a reply from Hero of Time.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
The bad logic, is the fact that it's a base instinct to try to make other's believe your lies through subconscious cues. When spoken verbally, we all would have registered the meaning behind him saying "we town" but most likely nobody would have noticed it, but rather filed it away in the back of our brains as a little bump towards having a "gut feeling" that he's town. But when it's written and we get a chance to read it twelve or fourty-seven times, we notice the little, subtle clues that one could sneak in, even against their own knowledge, to try to convince us of the lies they may not even have told us yet.
</psychology lesson>
tl;dr: It's natural instinct to lie about things in this fashion, therefore it's scummy.
I still don't think it's nearly enough in itself. Maybe there's no better option on Day 1 sometimes, but regardless it's not a strong basis for a vote.


VOTE: Keyshe, seriously. She's been sticking out to me for the last long while, but I never could quite figure out why so I never bothered to say anything. But after reading through the past 14 pages about three times, I finally noticed it. At the end of practically all of her posts, she has a direct, personal message to another person. Mostly GDL and Axle. This is a very effective tactic to make others forget about you if your last words are significantly of another subject. It worked on me, but it's also the perfect tactic for a scum to hide in plain sight.
That's kind of just how she posts, actually. Or at least it has been in my experience, lately. Then again in most of the recent games that I can recall clearly, she was scum (Batman Mafia, Castlevania Mafia, Pokemafia, Star Trek), so I don't know what that means.


Axle where do you get off saying that they are horrible lynches/suspects? You come in here after ignoring this game for the most part, hell you always do that and you come in here and blame us for working with what we had, and what we gradually get? Also were is this high and mighty attitude coming from, really when was the last time you actually really lynched a scum as town? You are not infallible.

And for the fact my vote was not paranoid at all. I thought about it a lot thank you very much. What is with the " doesn't make him auto-scum" crap? I'm pretty damn sure few players think there are many absolutes in this game. You very well know all one can do is go with gut instinct and observation.

How about you re-read and not have condescending closed mindedness, all this anger really isn't necessary or appropriate. I recall you voting on someone based on claiming Wesley Crusher, on an obvious town too and being annoyed people thought that was scummy and ridiculous.
o_0

This kinda came out of the blue; kind of confused as to the 180, since between your last post and this one I toned down my criticisms notably... I was never intending to be condescending nor was I ever angry, that's your misunderstanding. I am being challenging, as I disagree with what basically lead people to pursue votes against Go_Dark_Link, Ninten* and Arkvoodle. Don't forget I didn't just jump in here. I read the thread from the beginning, going through it the same as you guys. I didn't come to the same conclusion, and I think the conclusion that you guys came to was a bad one. Sorry... I can't really break it to you any softer than that.

Also for the record, I've been scum a lot recently, and in the games before that where I was Town I was killed early, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make challenging my ability to hunt scum. Either way, my best response is the fact that in Pokemafia, I was Serial Killer (and therefore still a scum-hunter as the Mafia are my enemy), and I basically tore the Mafia to pieces, damn near single-handedly.

And yeah I did jump in a little late (though only by a day or two)... so what? You expect me to not contribute to the thread and state my thoughts?


Really? Ignoring the fact that there are already people moving on to her now, from the evidence and analysis that's come out from our experiments with votes and discussion?? Oh and that the Ark thing is already done, let alone was only 3 or 4 votes on him to begin with. That only happened because of his insistence on not being uncooperative and obstinate. Also mind you those vote weren't rushed on him either.
I made it pretty clear that my posts were in response to the thread as I was reading through it. If something I said is outdated, then fine, it's outdated, you're free to state that. And I didn't say anything about a rushed vote, except for my post back on... idk, page 8 I think, but I literally hadn't even read anything about the thread yet.


What is really ridiculous is this attitude of yours and the fact that if you are so certain of Erebea is THE proper lynch why aren't you building a better case, with quotes and all? You are actually voting like you usually do when you need a place holder for a vote to look good. (Which I believe you do regardless of role?)
Uh, huh? I'm kind of satisfied with my case against Erebea. I outlined in my post things he's done that are off. If you want to double check them, you easily can be searching up all of his posts in the thread (go to the Mafia forum view -> click "replies" -> click the number that indicates how many posts Erebea has made). I don't want to do all the work here, but if you really want a better case then I'll post one tomorrow.


None whatsoever. Also, I kind of lied, I was suspicious of Raindrop for a while, and I felt like changing my vote since Go_Dark_Link was nowhere to be found.
So just... unvote because person goes inactive?
 

Pen

The game is on!
There is one person in this game who seems really scummy to me. So scummy that I will actually vote for that person. I know I never use to vote at all on the first day of a Mafia game, but I have now realized that it's not at all good for the town if we don't lynch scum as quickly as possible.

Vote: Raindrop14

As I've said earlier, Raindrop has been playing very offensive this round. She's been suspecting Ninten*, link to present, Jedizora, arkvoodle, Erebea, Hero of Time and me, all with no good evidence. It seems to me as if Raindrop is just trying to look as if she is scum hunting by accusing a lot of players, in a rather messy way too.
 

arkvoodle

Diabolical
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Location
Somewhere
Keyshe said:
Ark... you had three vote on you for a reason. You were growing in suspicion by your action, posts and all the avoiding of questioning.

Which is exactly why I claimed.

Keyshe said:
Now with all your crazy claiming people where backing off, then you again start off again with odd comments that don't quite work. And I bring them up and ask you about them and you are still deflecting and avoiding again?! How are we to trust you, how can I when I give you an inch and here you are daring me to vote for you because you don't want to give any explanations?!

I've given my explanation. I've given you the entire PM. Isn't that explanation enough? And i'm daring you to vote for me because you seem set on it, even though i've given you all the stuff I had to give.

Keyshe said:
Here you are saying nothing is stopping me... are you really saying your claim are faulty and full of holes? You know what I've said, your wincon matches up. Logic and facts from your PM are stopping from voting.

I never said anything of the sort. But if you don't believe me and the people who have confirmed that the wincon is identical to theirs, then I have nothing left to do but brand you as being scum

Axle the Beast said:
Or you could have given the best explanation you could while moving onto something constructive. Claiming and wincons are not the only way to alleviate suspicion, and doing any claiming on Day 1 is foolish.

I've discussed this in many posts before, so I would advise reading the same thing in those. I know it was foolish, but it was the only way to stop a bandwagon and to aleviate suspicion placed upon me. Otherwise I would have been lynched.

EBWODP

Meego said:
I think ark chose the wrong way to go about claiming,

Oh look. Another one. I've established that already. I've given the reason many times. It's becoming rather frustrating to have to keep returning and explaining the same thing over and over agian when the posts are there for anyone to read.
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Location
Florida
Axle the Beast said:
Unless he lied? Since, you know, that's a basic element of Mafia? Similarly, for the second bolded part, yeah, RVS happen a lot but it's not true that they happen all the time nor is it true that it's a flawless method of starting the game (even though, and Ark take notice RVS can be a legitimate tactic). Bottom line is it's legitimate to disagree with it. I myself don't random vote; it isn't my style.

Yes but this is the basic misconception by tons of players about RVS's. It happens in every game, and it comes from a number of players. It's not really scummy. I don't even think you can consider that a scummy element that should be noted for the future. Ark's just being grouchy about a small thing he doesn't fully understand. If he was scum I think he would have backed off by now, or at the very least been restrained by his team-mates... unless they're bussing him.
I don't believe I've ever said anything about RVS being a flawless method, so where did that even come from?

Also, aren't you, in a way, contradicting yourself? You say to me that RVS doesn't happen all the time. Then, you say to Keyshe that it happens in every game, and yes, I know you're talking about the misconception of RVS in that post, but in order for that misconception to occur, wouldn't an RVS have to be present?

I actually have more to say to you Axle, but I need to do some things today. I'll be back on later with that.
 
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