Evidence for Whale Not Being a Dream

[JuicieJ]

Ok, so I'm sure we all know about this idea going around that the whale in the Skyward Sword E3 is just part of a dream, right? And that one of the reasons to believe it is that Zelda had a white coat/cloak on when the whale was shown, but she didn't right before. Well, when going through the trailer for some screenshots to post in a thread, I noticed something interesting. Check it out.

That's the exact same coat/cloak that she was wearing when she was caught by the whale. Coincidence? I think not. I think this is clear evidence that the whale is indeed not part of a dream. What are your thoughts on this?

Oh, upon seeing this, I went to check out another screenshot in existance. She also has it here. (How'd we miss that?)

 

[Ventus]

I don't believe the whale is part of a dream. Trailers often show sequences out of order, skip ahead and sometimes even rewind. I don't see why they wouldn't do the same with E3. There isn't much evidence supporting the idea of the whale being a dream anywho. Now, I don't believe that Zelda was eaten up either, but that's completely different and off topic.

 

[JuicieJ]

Now, I don't believe that Zelda was eaten up either, but that's completely different and off topic.

Of course she wasn't eaten, she was just caught and saved. This is a good whale, not a bad whale.

 

[Caelus]

This still doesn't explain why she didn't have the cloak as she fell through the tornado, you simply disregarded it as an error. If it were an error it would have been corrected in the Comic-Con trailer like Link's earrings.

 

[JuicieJ]

This still doesn't explain why she didn't have the cloak as she fell through the tornado, you simply disregarded it as an error. If it were an error it would have been corrected in the Comic-Con trailer like Link's earrings.

Not necessarily. Color edits are easy. Adding something into the scene...that's a bit different.

 

[Dukusword]

Not necessarily. Color edits are easy. Adding something into the scene...that's a bit different.

Yep, I also think it was an error, I was looking at it and it has to be an error because when Zelda falls into the tornado around the tornado was just white and when she is falling into the whale there's just while and it can't be two different scenes.

 

[Locke]

Yeah, like I said in the other thread, she is only missing it in that one scene. She's wearing it in every other scene, and throughout the entire demo. This would lead one to assume that scene takes place at a different time, except that's when she's taken by the tornado, which was directly referenced in Ghirahim's speech. The only explanation I've been able to think of is that they forgot to add it to the model in that scene. I'm not experienced in 3D modelling, but I believe adding an existing model to another one should be just as easy as changing the color. If they programmed the motion well, they could even have switched out that entire Zelda model for the correct one. But then how did they miss it in the first place? I've been second-guessing myself on this issue since it came up. It's not important anyway at this time, so we might as well just wait and see. Same thing with Link's Skyloftian Sword when fighting Ghirahim at the end of the trailer - I'm not going to put too much effort into thinking about it until it's finalized. I'm not trying to say that it's futile to theorize about Skyward Sword before it's released. These are just two topics that I don't care enough to do so. I don't think the reward (which could be zero if they get changed) is worth the work.

 

[Caelus]

It's a wild inconsistency, I no longer believe the event is a dream or a vision, but it's certainly strange and we'll only find out by playing the game ourselves.

 

[JuicieJ]

I'm not experienced in 3D modelling, but I believe adding an existing model to another one should be just as easy as changing the color. If they programmed the motion well, they could even have switched out that entire Zelda model for the correct one. But then how did they miss it in the first place? I've been second-guessing myself on this issue since it came up. It's not important anyway at this time, so we might as well just wait and see. Same thing with Link's Skyloftian Sword when fighting Ghirahim at the end of the trailer - I'm not going to put too much effort into thinking about it until it's finalized. I'm not trying to say that it's futile to theorize about Skyward Sword before it's released. These are just two topics that I don't care enough to do so. I don't think the reward (which could be zero if they get changed) is worth the work.

What I meant by color edits being easier is with a final scene. If the scene is already complete, color correcting can easily be done to it. But it's a pain to go back and put something completely new in there. It would have taken way too much of their time, and it's probably with them like with you and me: we don't really care about that silly little detail. (The only reason I made this thread is to show once and for all it's not a dream, as I was tired of people saying it.)

 

[Locke]

What I meant by color edits being easier is with a final scene. If the scene is already complete, color correcting can easily be done to it. But it's a pain to go back and put something completely new in there. It would have taken way too much of their time, and it's probably with them like with you and me: we don't really care about that silly little detail. (The only reason I made this thread is to show once and for all it's not a dream, as I was tired of people saying it.)

I don't know what it being a final scene has to do with it. All Zelda cutscenes are rendered in real-time, so they can make whatever changes they want with the models.

Kawagoe: I was always worried about what might come up. But I thought something like that might happen, so I prepared a tool to make such changes easier. We were making real-time in-game movies, so even if the clothes or items changed, I could switch them into the scene.

Iwata: Back then, pre-rendered movies—which were prepared ahead of time—were common, but the movies in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time were rendered in real time, so the clothes or mask you were wearing at the time would show up.

Kawagoe: Right. There weren't many problems in that regard.

Osawa: Miyamoto-san doesn't really like cinematic elements anyway.

Koizumi: This may be overstating it, but Miyamoto-san probably doesn't need any cut scenes at all.

Aonuma: Hmm, maybe not.

Koizumi: He says they can do without them, but if we're going to have them, he wants a way to redo them over and over.

Iwata: The last excuse he wants to listen to is, "I can't fix it" because the cut scenes have already been made."

Koizumi: He says it's all right to make movies, but we have to be able to change them up through the day before completion.

Iwata: Ooh, that's rough. (laughs)

Everyone: (laughs)

Koizumi: That way of thinking had been drilled into me ever since Super Mario 64, so pre-rendered movies were never an option. Kawagoe-san had diligently made a way to create real-time demos, which paid off in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

(Iwata Asks: OoT3D)

They specifically refer to being able to change clothes and things up through the day before completion. Though they're talking about OoT here, they also say it's Miyamoto's general rule, and that they're still doing it that way to this day. If that sort of thing was important in 1998, I would think it would be even more important in 2011, hence my confusion.

 

[Caelus]

I wonder if that cutscene will even be in the game... it might be portrayed differently and correctly.

 

[Cabbage]

uhh, so it's a cloak, right? maybe it fell off while she was falling, and that was cut out of the trailer. or maybe she took it off. lots of things coulda happened; it doesn't have to be a mistake on nintendo's part.

 

[Caelus]

uhh, so it's a cloak, right? maybe it fell off while she was falling, and that was cut out of the trailer. or maybe she took it off.

The problem is that she had the cloak while on her bird, she didn't have it while falling through a tornado, but she had it while being eaten by the while. Assuming this is chronological, it makes no sense. But it probably isn't.

 

[Garo]

I don't see how her wearing the same thing in multiple places is evidence for it not being a dream. NPCs wear the same outfits the entire game - you don't see anyone but Link changing outfits, and even Link rarely does so.

 

[Red Baron]

That's the exact same coat/cloak that she was wearing when she was caught by the whale. Coincidence? I think not. I think this is clear evidence that the whale is indeed not part of a dream. What are your thoughts on this?

My opinion on this whole matter is that I'm avoiding having one, as I may as well just wait and play the game. However, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. That Zelda is shown wearing that coat/cloak combo previously is not even close to decisive proof. Link probably wouldn't dream Zelda wearing something she's never worn before unless he's having a literal prophetic dream (in which case the scene would be both dream and real), so the fact that she wears the cloak at another time is far from conclusive.