Spoiler Common Theory Breakdown: One or More Ganons?

[MrMosley]

It survived because of the Triforce. Ganon didn't have the Triforce during AST.

It doesn't matter how he survived. What matters is that his essence was still lingering. Ganon was not completely destroyed in ALttP or obviously, Nintendo wanted to show that he was not completely destroyed. How he lived on is unimportant. What is important is the simple fact that he lived on. And what is more important is the original intent which was ALttP showing a backstory for the Ganon character in LoZ, proving that his defeat in ALttP was not a permanent death. THAT Ganon came back somehow, and the original intent has never changed.

The Pyramid is sacred to them, it was not built by them:
"Oh, visitors to this village are truly rare, you know? We of the Zuna tribe live in this village. We may not look it now, but we are descended from the wise pyramid builders!" -Zuna in FSA.

See I'm still not seeing why you are even bringing up who made it when that was never the issue. I never brought up who built the thing nor was it an important part of my argument. The important thing was that it was sacred to the Gerudo. Who built it is not important.

Once again, theories to suit facts not vice versa. And I'm pretty sure it's implied. So what, Ganon just decided to transform himself with the Trident only once? I doubt it. You have to provide evidence that he can't transform again.

Maybe he can, maybe he can't. This is another thing that is not really important to my argument. I don't have to give a reason or provide any facts to show that Ganon could or did transform back into Ganondorf after FSA because all of my other evidence to support its placement provides this information for me. By putting FSA before ALttP, that means the Seal War is after FSA. Again, in the SW, Ganon begins as Ganondorf. So logically, after FSA, he would have reverted back into Ganondorf. I don't have to provide facts or information as to how he went from Ganon to Ganondorf in this time period because the game says that he does. I don't have to know how, nor is that important to my argument. But, one thing is that it never says that the Trident permanently transformed him, so I could use that to say it didn't permanently transform him, along with the SW being after FSA.

Now this is just disgraceful. With this logic I could say Ganondorf came out of the ocean after TWW and is now stalking Link in new Hyrule. It's ridiculous!

You are completely wrong actually. To say that Ganondorf came out of the ocean and is stalking Link sometime after WW is to make up a new story that could or could not happen. It is an unimportant theory because there is nothing to support it. My theory stated only that I had evidence for FSA--ALttP, which means the SW obviously goes in between. The difference being, I have a game that comes after FSA to relate my theories to. Therefore, anything that is possible or likely to happen between those games is possible.

Like, say we see an apple tree somewhere and we also notice that one apple has fell from the tree. I can provide clear, connective evidence to support the idea that this apple came from this specific tree it is lying beneath. Relate this to my argument. The apple tree and its individual apples hanging from the branches represent FSA, and more specifically, the state of Ganondorf during FSA. I know that Ganondorf was a man prior to obtaining the Trident of Power, which obviously allowed him to become a form of Ganon. The fallen apple represents the story and backstory of ALttP, more specifically, how Ganondorf was again a man in the BS, but later was transformed into Ganon by his wish. I don't have to explain how the apple fell to know that it fell and it obviously originated hanging from a tree branch. It could have fallen by the wind blowing it off, it could have ripened and fell off, or someone could have picked it off and layed it down. There are a number of possibilities as to how the apple fell from the tree, just like there are a number of possibilities as to how Ganon lost his state of being and reverted back into Ganondorf in time for the SW. But in reality, those possibilities do not necessarily matter to the overall fact that the apple fell. The apple being on the ground is all I need to prove that it fell, but how it fell is not important when I have evidence supporting that it was first hanging from this specific tree.

The Tridents look completely different.
With this logic I could say FSA comes before OoT because Phantom Ganon has a Trident.

Phantom Ganon is not Ganondorf. Some Moblins in ALttP carry trident weapons as well, but does that mean they are Ganon? No. The evidence is that in chronological release of the games, ALttP was the first game to have Ganon use a Trident weapon. FSA shows us Ganon obtaining a Trident weapon. Because other evidence supports FSA being before ALttP, it also makes sense that in FSA, he would have gotten this Trident.

The Kokiri Sword in Majora's Mask was obviously very different in style, even though MM and OoT shared the same overall art style. There is no logical reasoning for it looking different, but that doesn't mean that it is a different sword altogether. Child Link obviously obtains this sword in OoT, and we see him with it in MM, so it is the same sword regardless of how it appears. Same basic logic is used in my theory as proof for the Tridents being the same.

 

[Satsy]

The use of Occam's razor as a dependency in an argument strikes me as odd. Surely this could be invoked not only for "they are the same" (although it's not really all that simple without proof of this being the case), but also for "they are completely different maidens" (which requires less proof, if any at all). We know that in LttP the maidens had power from their bloodlines... but if it's anything like the power Zelda has in ST, or even Tetra in WW, it doesn't mean they were necessarily aware of it or could use it consciously. They have things to teach you when you find them, I cannot deny this, but that could be from being awakened by Aganhim, to break the seal.

 

[Pinecove]

It doesn't matter how he survived. What matters is that his essence was still lingering. Ganon was not completely destroyed in ALttP or obviously, Nintendo wanted to show that he was not completely destroyed. How he lived on is unimportant. What is important is the simple fact that he lived on. And what is more important is the original intent which was ALttP showing a backstory for the Ganon character in LoZ, proving that his defeat in ALttP was not a permanent death. THAT Ganon came back somehow, and the original intent has never changed.

His essence ONLY lingered because of the Triforce though. In AST NO SUCH SENARIO CAN EXIST.

See I'm still not seeing why you are even bringing up who made it when that was never the issue. I never brought up who built the thing nor was it an important part of my argument. The important thing was that it was sacred to the Gerudo. Who built it is not important.

Oh I'm just nitpicking.

Maybe he can, maybe he can't. This is another thing that is not really important to my argument. I don't have to give a reason or provide any facts to show that Ganon could or did transform back into Ganondorf after FSA because all of my other evidence to support its placement provides this information for me. By putting FSA before ALttP, that means the Seal War is after FSA.

But why is the SW after FSA? Why couldn't it be, say before ALttP.
Regardless, I get what you are saying now (that and your next point).

Like, say we see an apple tree somewhere and we also notice that one apple has fell from the tree. I can provide clear, connective evidence to support the idea that this apple came from this specific tree it is lying beneath. Relate this to my argument. The apple tree and its individual apples hanging from the branches represent FSA, and more specifically, the state of Ganondorf during FSA. I know that Ganondorf was a man prior to obtaining the Trident of Power, which obviously allowed him to become a form of Ganon. The fallen apple represents the story and backstory of ALttP, more specifically, how Ganondorf was again a man in the BS, but later was transformed into Ganon by his wish. I don't have to explain how the apple fell to know that it fell and it obviously originated hanging from a tree branch. It could have fallen by the wind blowing it off, it could have ripened and fell off, or someone could have picked it off and layed it down. There are a number of possibilities as to how the apple fell from the tree, just like there are a number of possibilities as to how Ganon lost his state of being and reverted back into Ganondorf in time for the SW. But in reality, those possibilities do not necessarily matter to the overall fact that the apple fell. The apple being on the ground is all I need to prove that it fell, but how it fell is not important when I have evidence supporting that it was first hanging from this specific tree.

Once again, I get what you are saying now. It does irk me, but I can accept that.

Phantom Ganon is not Ganondorf. Some Moblins in ALttP carry trident weapons as well, but does that mean they are Ganon? No. The evidence is that in chronological release of the games, ALttP was the first game to have Ganon use a Trident weapon. FSA shows us Ganon obtaining a Trident weapon. Because other evidence supports FSA being before ALttP, it also makes sense that in FSA, he would have gotten this Trident.

The Kokiri Sword in Majora's Mask was obviously very different in style, even though MM and OoT shared the same overall art style. There is no logical reasoning for it looking different, but that doesn't mean that it is a different sword altogether. Child Link obviously obtains this sword in OoT, and we see him with it in MM, so it is the same sword regardless of how it appears. Same basic logic is used in my theory as proof for the Tridents being the same.

I just think it's silly to base something like that off of a Trident which doesn't look the same between FSA and any other Game it appears in. Not only that but it plays nowhere near as prominent of a role in those games.

 

[Raven]

Ganon has cheated death quite a few times now, it's true. But it makes him all the eviler and if I were to try and explain it I would say that it is a combination of things keeping him from actual death. as long as the triforce of power is still working Ganon is near indestructible (we saw it's power fade in TP but couldn't quite kill him in OoT), also in OoX Kotake and Koume revive Ganon using dark scorcery that is probably similar to the scorcery we saw ganon use in OoT before he obtains the triforce. Also we see Koume and Kotake using this dark power in the spirit temple to create an iron knuckle and turn into Twinrova. And lastly there is the reincarnation factor, after so many games we are seeing new versions of the same characters (ex Malladus), and so in future generations a new Link, Zelda and Ganon will all appear at some point to do battle again. Throughout Hyrule's history it has been so.

 

[MrMosley]

His essence ONLY lingered because of the Triforce though. In AST NO SUCH SENARIO CAN EXIST.

But why is the SW after FSA? Why couldn't it be, say before ALttP.
Regardless, I get what you are saying now (that and your next point).

It is before ALttP. The way the Seal War works, even still, is that it has to be before ALttP with no other game coming between the SW and ALttP itself. Why? Because once Ganon was sealed during the Seal War, he stayed there all the way up to ALttP when he attempted to break out using Agahnim. Common sense, I know, but just pointing out that no matter what comes before ALttP, the SW must come after that title.

I just think it's silly to base something like that off of a Trident which doesn't look the same between FSA and any other Game it appears in. Not only that but it plays nowhere near as prominent of a role in those games.

Well another solution is just the chronological release of the games. Like I mentioned before, ALttP, the third released game in the series, showed Ganon with a trident weapon for the first time. Back then, yeah maybe it was not important, had no official story... It was just a weapon they wanted him to have, so the look of it didn't have to be too ellaborate. However, in FSA, the Trident is much more focused upon, so it had to be more detailed and "special" looking. Perhaps this is why they made the design the way they did in FSA.

The point I'm basically getting at here is that the Trident itself is just one thing that people often use as evidence for FSA's placement. The Palace of the Four Sword in ALttP is another, yet questionable even for me, piece of evidence that technically can be used. In fact, most of the evidence to support FSA's placement and connection to ALttP is questionable and I will readily admit that. But the thing is, FSA has more connections, more ties, more evidence to support it being before ALttP that it does with connections to any other games. Well, as far as connecting it with the rest of the Zelda series, minus the Four Sword Saga since we know where it falls amongst those three.

 

[DuckNoises]

I just think it's silly to base something like that off of a Trident which doesn't look the same between FSA and any other Game it appears in. Not only that but it plays nowhere near as prominent of a role in those games.

Here are a few things I said in regards to the FSA Trident in another thread:

Here's why I figure Nintendo came up with the Trident of Power. After TWW, People had been weaned off of the idea of Ganon being the humanoid, blue boar monster without having been Ganondorf gaining the Triforce of Power (while the Triforce is split). They had already made three games featuring Ganon while the Triforce is whole; ALttP, OoA and OoS. Since the public would undoubtedly demand answers, Nintendo acted proactively and made something to try and explain how Ganondorf could become Ganon without having the Triforce being split. Here is your Trident of Power.

This is also why it doesn't play a prominent role in those games; I think it was conceived solely to explain those instances retrospectively, and the importance of the Trident only exists in FSA because there have been no games since FSA that include Ganon in his permanent boar form, Trident and all. This means they haven't had a chance to specifically use that idea in any game since FSA.

As to how it doesn't look the same, there are always aesthetic differences, even to the same characters or the exact same items, usually due to art style.

 

[figthersword]

Ganondorf have multiple deaths maybe because of it's magical powers

 

[Mixtoplix]

OoT, Tp, WW, TLoZ, AoL (only when Link dies) ALttp, Fsa, OoA, thats all I know soo far!!!

 

[Twilipower1984]

Has it occurred to anyone that Ganon can't die because of the "rules" set in motion by the goddesses
Link is destined to have the triforce of courage and Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom. In order to truly end this would be for Link and Zelda to have a child because then two pieces of the Triforce would exist in one being and then that child would have to obtain the triforce of power and put the world in harmony again. But for evil to cease to exist good must also because half light and half-darkness exist in harmony until Ganon steps over the line and therefore Link or Zelda have to balance it out again but he will always have the triforce of power until it is determined how he possesses it. Did the goddesses set this eternal conflict in motion? if so, why? it is the balance of these three forces: Power, Wisdom and Courage that the triforce exists

 

[ironknuckle1]

In WW and TP ganondorf is most likely killed but i have heard people try to say that he never actually died in it. But only in ALTTP and LOZ is in my opinion Ganondorf legitimately killed because in LOZ you see this death in the end and this is due to the silver arrows and in ALTTP you use Silver arrows to defeat Ganondorf. While in the other games Ganondorf is never killed because he can only die through Silver Arrows if i remember right. So in other words the only way that Ganon could have died is through Silver Arrows. But the death of Ganondorf in TP and WW are different because in these games it is not Ganon who is dieing it is Ganondorf and since Ganondorf is a gerudo i would guess that he would most likely be able to be killed in more human like ways such as in these two games.

To sum it all up Ganon seems to only die when killed by Silver Arrows and Ganondorf seems to be able to be killed by more human like means such as in Tp and WW

 

[Locke]

In WW and TP ganondorf is most likely killed but i have heard people try to say that he never actually died in it. But only in ALTTP and LOZ is in my opinion Ganondorf legitimately killed because in LOZ you see this death in the end and this is due to the silver arrows and in ALTTP you use Silver arrows to defeat Ganondorf. While in the other games Ganondorf is never killed because he can only die through Silver Arrows if i remember right. So in other words the only way that Ganon could have died is through Silver Arrows. But the death of Ganondorf in TP and WW are different because in these games it is not Ganon who is dieing it is Ganondorf and since Ganondorf is a gerudo i would guess that he would most likely be able to be killed in more human like ways such as in these two games.

To sum it all up Ganon seems to only die when killed by Silver Arrows and Ganondorf seems to be able to be killed by more human like means such as in Tp and WW

It's more a matter of whether he has the ToP or not. Ganondorf survived his execution because of the ToP. He only died in WW and TP after the ToP left him. Ganon has the ToP in LoZ and the entire ToX in LttP, so he can't be killed by normal means (those that would otherwise be able to kill Ganondorf w/o the ToP, e.g. the MS), only Silver Arrows. But yes, I agree with your post, as having the Triforce and being Ganon are very closely related.

 

[ironknuckle1]

It's more a matter of whether he has the ToP or not. Ganondorf survived his execution because of the ToP. He only died in WW and TP after the ToP left him. Ganon has the ToP in LoZ and the entire ToX in LttP, so he can't be killed by normal means (those that would otherwise be able to kill Ganondorf w/o the ToP, e.g. the MS), only Silver Arrows. But yes, I agree with your post, as having the Triforce and being Ganon are very closely related.

I understand and that is a good point about how based on the Triforce and the amount of it Ganon has could make him i guess kind of invulnerable to certain means of death because of the triforce. I think that could be one way of explaining it but you obviously explained it in much more detail.

 

[Mikau94]

You can revive Ganon by sprinkling the Hero's blood on his ashes, or he just gets sealed away in another realm.

 

[ironknuckle1]

You can revive Ganon by sprinkling the Hero's blood on his ashes, or he just gets sealed away in another realm.

I think your missing the point but we are trying to determine in which games Ganon has died and in which games ganondorf has died. Not so much about when he is revived though in you are eight that in zelda 2 it is true that ganon can be revived through the heros blood but i think you forgot that in OOX that ganon is also revived using twinrova and the three flames (though many dont count this one because they say that ganon when revived is more of a mindless destructive being and that they probably didnt do what they really intended which was obviously to revive him to his former self).

 

[Simon]

There's one big problem with this thread: Everyone is assuming their timeline is Canon.