Mafia Round 3 (Game Thread)

[Hanyou]

And What is that reason?

Right above the sentence you quoted, dude.

To be clearer, townies have much more to lose from random lynching than the mafia does, and even at early stages in the game, it's better to target intelligently than to fire off in random directions just because we think the next round will give us more clues. That's not how it works.

And so long as we avoid bandwagoning, it's much more difficult for the mafia to manipulate people to target a townie.

 

[kokirion]

Right above the sentence you quoted, dude.

To be clearer, townies have much more to lose from random lynching than the mafia does, and even at early stages in the game, it's better to target intelligently than to fire off in random directions just because we think the next round will give us more clues. That's not how it works.

And so long as we avoid bandwagoning, it's much more difficult for the mafia to manipulate people to target a townie.

you're right

the ironic thing is that when you post something silly they lynch you and when you post something smart they night-kill you :xd:

 

[dur.i.am]

The problem is that "inactivity" can be used by the Mafia, they pretend like they are inactive while the village is only lynching the active players (most of the townies in this case) so I'm really glad people will get modkilled when they don't post in 3 days. 3 days are to short to play inactive.

@chise, have you ever played Guild Wars? In that game almost the half of everyone is scum but the game still takes at least a month. It's not that fast

What he means is that it could be over quickly. E.g. Let's say the Townies accidently lynch the Princess/Prince, that's 1 townie down, then during the night, another two possible townies can die. Once that's done, the Townies don't lynch and another two possible townies will die. That 5 right there in just over a week of real time...etc. And guild wards works differently I think, I'm not sure how largely Atsuma changed around the rules for this game when he made it though.

I also believe that Hanyou is thinking of the following reason...

When we start the RVS, we are more than likely to kill one of our own for no reason, therefore we must put a little more thought into the first in game "day" so that we may have a chance of lynching someone that is Mafia or the SK.

 

[kokirion]

What he means is that it could be over quickly. E.g. Let's say the Townies accidently lynch the Princess/Prince, that's 1 townie down, then during the night, another two possible townies can die. Once that's done, the Townies don't lynch and another two possible townies will die. That 5 right there in just over a week of real time...etc. And guild wards works differently I think, I'm not sure how largely Atsuma changed around the rules for this game when he made it though.

I also believe that Hanyou is thinking of the following reason...

When we start the RVS, we are more than likely to kill one of our own for no reason, therefore we must put a little more thought into the first in game "day" so that we may have a chance of lynching someone that is Mafia or the SK.

There are three 4 systems to die:

scum
- mafia (they kill always townies, so yeah, every night at least one townie dies)
- SK (most of the time he's helping the townies (I know that from experience) but he decides his kills in his own so it's easy to make mistakes.

town
- the town leaders (I forgot his name, he kills a player for the town but the problem is that only one person/the "town elite' is able to decide)
- the lynching system (is 100% corrupt, is hard to trust, but this is the only system everyone has a vote in)

_____________________________________________
If you think about it there are 2-3 systems who work for the townies and 1-2 for scum. So if the lynching system is disabled it's not a huge problem but the problem is that the mafia system always kills the right target while all the other systems are random

 

[Baysiderulez]

Question for mod (or anyone else who knows): Are the rules implying that there will always be a lynch even if a majority is not reached? I've always played that if you don't have a majority vote by deadline, then no one is lynched. Can you also vote NO LYNCH?

Someone else already responded but yes... The person with the most votes will get lynched regardless of whether it is a majority or not. Last game we had some people almost get lynched with 2 votes against them. For the most part people were scared to vote or throw around accusations and this really hurt us townies in the long run. Be active. Its ok. And don't be afraid to vote. Not lynching is really giving free nights to the mafia, and that's a scary thought.

One difference between saying "I have my suspicions" about you and "I think youre scum" is that it raises the level of urgency that the person must acknowledge your post. "Oh your suspicious but you aren't really serious about getting rid of me" is far different from "CRAP! They're trying to kill me, I had better get my defense on" This is what I tried to advocate in the last game where people were scared to vote, everyone was so cautious in avoiding a wrong move that it definitely worked against the townies.

 

[dur.i.am]

There are three 4 systems to die:

scum
- mafia (they kill always townies, so yeah, every night at least one townie dies)
- SK (most of the time he's helping the townies (I know that from experience) but he decides his kills in his own so it's easy to make mistakes.

town
- the town leaders (I forgot his name, he kills a player for the town but the problem is that only one person/the "town elite' is able to decide)
- the lynching system (is 100% corrupt, is hard to trust, but this is the only system everyone has a vote in)

_____________________________________________
If you think about it there are 2-3 systems who work for the townies and 1-2 for scum. So if the lynching system is disabled it's not a huge problem but the problem is that the mafia system always kills the right target while all the other systems are random

Firstly, you missed the entire word "could" in my previous posts, I'm not saying that it will happen like that, but it could. And if you want to go into that systems thing...the way I see it is:

The Townies are also likely to kill themselves during the start of the game, seeing as at this stage this just under a 4:1 ratio of Townies to Mafia, which makes it much harder for the townies to kill the mafia, especially if they play as well as they did in the last game. So that's really still 0 - 1, or 1 -1 if you believe that the odds are a 50:50 chance that the Townies will lynch a Mafia.

If we assume that the Serial Killer only goes for the Mafia, it is just as likely that the Serial Killer will get their nightkills just as wrong as the Townies will get their lynches, especially since the Serial Killer is pretty much in the same boat as the Townies when it comes to killing the Mafia, as they are most likely to get it wrong for a fair amount of the round. So that's not a point for the Townies either. That's 0 - 2, or 2 - 2 going by the 50:50 logic.

The Vigilante is very much like the Serial Killer from the start of the game, as they have to also beat the odds whilst making sure the Mafia doesn't trick them into killing townies. Which is pretty much 0 - 3, or 3 -3 for the same point as the Serial Killer being 2 - 2 of you think that the odds are 50:50.

Finally, you have the Mafia that will only have 1 night at the most where they will not kill a townie, and that is if they kill the Serial Killer. So really, it's 4 -0 in my book, at least for the start of the game.

Really, unless the Townies and Vigilante are both very skilled, it's more than likely that 4 Townies will die for the first one or two "days", unless the Serial Killer also happens to be very good.

This debate is completely useless too, because it's not really that relavent to the game.

 

[kokirion]

Firstly, you missed the entire word "could" in my previous posts, I'm not saying that it will happen like that, but it could. And if you want to go into that systems thing...the way I see it is:

The Townies are also likely to kill themselves during the start of the game, seeing as at this stage this just under a 4:1 ratio of Townies to Mafia, which makes it much harder for the townies to kill the mafia, especially if they play as well as they did in the last game. So that's really still 0 - 1, or 1 -1 if you believe that the odds are a 50:50 chance that the Townies will lynch a Mafia.

If we assume that the Serial Killer only goes for the Mafia, it is just as likely that the Serial Killer will get their nightkills just as wrong as the Townies will get their lynches, especially since the Serial Killer is pretty much in the same boat as the Townies when it comes to killing the Mafia, as they are most likely to get it wrong for a fair amount of the round. So that's not a point for the Townies either. That's 0 - 2, or 2 - 2 going by the 50:50 logic.

The Vigilante is very much like the Serial Killer from the start of the game, as they have to also beat the odds whilst making sure the Mafia doesn't trick them into killing townies. Which is pretty much 0 - 3, or 3 -3 for the same point as the Serial Killer being 2 - 2 of you think that the odds are 50:50.

Finally, you have the Mafia that will only have 1 night at the most where they will not kill a townie, and that is if they kill the Serial Killer. So really, it's 4 -0 in my book, at least for the start of the game.

Really, unless the Townies and Vigilante are both very skilled, it's more than likely that 4 Townies will die for the first one or two "days", unless the Serial Killer also happens to be very good.

This debate is completely useless too, because it's not really that relavent to the game.

First of all, you started the debate. I replied to Chise and you started the "discussion".

Second, most of the things you just said didn't make any sense. You're allready acting twisted, some posts back you said the lynching system was very very important. Now you just said we will only kill townies.. it's useless.

Because I think it's way to early to accuse someone I only IGMEOY you.

And DM I don't IGMEOY you anymore, I've thought about it and last game you were suspicious either. They lynched you and you was the village leader (in GW). So for now I only think you said something stupid because you did that before

 

[dur.i.am]

First of all, you started the debate. I replied to Chise and you started the "discussion".

Second, most of the things you just said didn't make any sense. You're allready acting twisted, some posts back you said the lynching system was very very important. Now you just said we will only kill townies.. it's useless.

Because I think it's way to early to accuse someone I only IGMEOY you.

And DM I don't IGMEOY you anymore, I've thought about it and last game you were suspicious either. They lynched you and you was the village leader (in GW). So for now I only think you said something stupid because you did that before

Seriously? Don't make me laugh...

That's because I was trying to tell you what Chise meant...he said could end very quickly, but then you started talking about an entirely different game as far as I'm aware. =P

 

[Xinnamin]

For the most part people were scared to vote or throw around accusations and this really hurt us townies in the long run. Be active. Its ok. And don't be afraid to vote. Not lynching is really giving free nights to the mafia, and that's a scary thought.

One difference between saying "I have my suspicions" about you and "I think youre scum" is that it raises the level of urgency that the person must acknowledge your post. "Oh your suspicious but you aren't really serious about getting rid of me" is far different from "CRAP! They're trying to kill me, I had better get my defense on" This is what I tried to advocate in the last game where people were scared to vote, everyone was so cautious in avoiding a wrong move that it definitely worked against the townies.

This reminds me of something that happened in the last game that I feel REALLY needs to be brought up, and that is raising questions at people you wouldn't be likely to suspect otherwise. Basically, last game, a LOT of scum walked free because they were so under the radar, even though they posted stuff that warranted suspicion. No one seems to pay attention to those small suspicions, and people get too afraid to say anything when they do cus they'll be labeled as a chaos starter.

There was one incident last game that really stuck out in my mind, and it was the day that the mafia had found me as the previous SK and were targeting me (if you read through some of the stuff I said after that game was over, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about). Basically, for those who don't know, two people dropped hints that the events of that day could potentially point out the scum. Both times, the hints were pretty much ignored, because when I dropped the hint, I was under fire for a lynch, so no one cared, and when the other person dropped the hint, well, he was so under the radar he was ignored the entire game (ironically, he was scum too).

My point is, we can't ignore ANYONE. There were several mafia members last game that, when you look back, were CLEARLY mafia, yet they survived til the end. Why? Because they were ignored the whole time. We can't do that. I'm not saying start randomly suspecting people, I'm just saying we can't ONLY focus on the inactives or ONLY focus on the louder people, but we have to look at EVERYONE. Yeah, I'm emphasizing this a lot, but this really bugged me after I died last game XD

 

[TreeHuggerPanda]

I really hate my role.Oh well.I better not get killed at the beggining this time.Lets answer the questions then.

Big hint, IGMEOY, Draco. (You weren't supposed to reveal anything about your role anyway...)

Issues I would like to addresses:

Village Idiots: Usually a role played by me, because I am an idiot who pays no attention to some of the evidence, what so ever. (Not an official role, but still...) But sometimes, the idiots don't appear as they are, I found this within Dracomajoria and Elfen last round. They were very confusing and we lynched them, but they were innocent. Just, villagers, try not to be so confusing and be straightforward with anything, so we won't have to make the same mistake as before.

Lurkers: Obviously, most likely scum who just post to avoid modkill. But, most of the time, there isn't exactly enough evidence to lynch them, though, if they do not post, then we should just leave them be- they will be modkilled anyway.

 

[Master Kokiri 9]

Alright, a few issues I'd like to address.

Village Idiots: Honestly, this is circumstantial in my opinion. Lynching Village Idiots just because they're idiots isn't a good thing. In some cases, yes, it is okay to lynch the Village Idiots (known as "Policy Lynching" when you target a player that's not intelligent enough to benefit the Town) where they're EXTREMELY volatile and stuff and they seem to have an important role (IE Vigilante who targets people at random, Roleblocker who only blocks a Vanilla Townie, Doctor who does stupid stuff, etc. etc.) and that is acceptable. If the Village Idiocy is kept to a bare minimum, however (sorry, can't give any examples), then it is not acceptable since you'd be losing a Townie who could potentially turn his game around and help the Town while also reducing the chance of lynching scum.

Simply put, it's rarely acceptable.

Lurkers: Again, a circumstantial thing. As I have learned recently, lurking is not the grounds for a lynch. Lurking can be used to strengthen theories and cases, but it can't be used as the grounds to lynch alone. Lurking can be incorperated by the Mafia (in fact, it's a common scum tactic), but it you can't just go "Hey, he's a lurker, let's lynch him". Sometimes a lurker can be your best bet at catching scum (Look at Simpsons Mafia on Vanilla Townies: we lynched Viral Maze on Day 1, who said nary a thing during Day 1, and he turned out to be a Goon), but it's definately not something you'd want to use as evidence a lot. It could also be argued that if someone's really active usually and then they end up inactive, they could possibly be scum trying to hide.

 

[zack125]

This reminds me of something that happened in the last game that I feel REALLY needs to be brought up, and that is raising questions at people you wouldn't be likely to suspect otherwise.

This sentence reminds of Master Kokiri 9. During the first game, he made a lot of analysis on people and it was later revealed that he was the serial killer. Fast forward to the second game and he uses the same strategy, even used it against one of his own. Although I seriously don't think he may be scum three times in a row, but you may never know.

 

[green goron]

I really hate my role.Oh well.I better not get killed at the beggining this time.Lets answer the questions then.

I don't think it is that much of a screw up (he might have done it on purpose) because all he says is he hates it. He could hate being a townie or hate being mafia. We don't know.

Now about inactivity's: I do think it is something to look at and definitely something you have as evidence against them but not enough to vote completely on. If they are inactive they will be modkilled anyway.

 

[Eduarda]

Some posts which I would like to comment on.

Nonetheless, random lynching is incredibly ********.

As I have said before, I disagree with the RVS. There is always a chance that you will loose someone important, so why take the risk?

1. How do you feel about lynching the "village idiots" aka people who we think are town but who are really bad at playing the game and are not helpful to the town at all?

For the village idiots, I'm not sure if you are also counting the scum idiots. If you are, then I personally am not really sure about this. Lynching any type of townie will be an advantage for the Mafia. On the other hand, there is the same amount of chance of there to be newbie townies as there is of there being a newbie scum. Who knows, you might get the scum, but then again there is a less chance, so this argument is debatable.

2. And how do you feel about lynching the "lurkers" people who rarely post at all and only post to avoid modkill?

Haven't played much of these games, but in my opinion, lots of non posters are scum, and the lurkers are most likely to be scum. As someone said, (forgot who) you also need some suspicious posts of that person, and then there is quite a big chance of (s)he being scum.

I really hate my role.Oh well.I better not get killed at the beggining this time.Lets answer the questions then.

DM, you should really not give any hints of your role. As Din already said, you may be trying to show that you are just an innocent villager. It makes you suspicious, but not too much for an IGMEOY in my opinion.

um... you arn't supposed to reveal anything about your role, and I know you know that because you have played games like this before. I know you were part of guild wars So the question is, was this a slip? Or are you purposfully trying to plant the see the you are just[I/] a townie and are unhappy with that?

Yes. I agree. There is always a chance of this being the case, but I think that might be the truth, he could really be a townie. This is not really enough to make him too suspicious, but slight, yes.

And DM I don't IGMEOY you anymore, I've thought about it and last game you were suspicious either. They lynched you and you was the village leader (in GW). So for now I only think you said something stupid because you did that before

I though that the village leader was Jetter. :S

 

[Icetomeetyou]

Okay let me sum up what everyone has been saying so we can actually get on with this game.

These "Village Idiots" shouldn't be killed just because they do one stupid thing. If they do something repeatedly then it's okay ground for the Mafia but not the Townies. For if the Townies killed them, then they could be losing one of their own.

Inactivity-Not all of us will have time to get on every day. Some of them are people who post just to avoid modkill or they could be "scum" hiding out. But this is also not a good reason for Townies to lynch someone.

:/