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Game Thread Bok's Fantasy Book Mafia

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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I think Rag would absolutely say she's playing to her scum meta as scum. She's very smart and knows that something like that would look favorable. So it's not AI to me. And yeah most people aren't familiar with the game I am referencing and it was an unusual game to begin with. But I read people easier by being scum with them and that's the closest I have to that with Rag. You don't think that a case that someone who is usually more aggressive and proactive in helpful ways as town, but how is proactive in more fake ways (just prodding but not doing much else) as scum is strong? I don't know what to tell you there. I see a difference in her plays (one she admitted to herself, after I voted her mind you so it must have been a strong case if it were true) so I'm going to follow that.

I'm not giving him a pass. You're acting like I've town locked him, when I just think his play has warranted him a town enough read to not want to lynch him today. Also it has nothing to do with activity like you're seeming to imply (except for I think he would have been active in the game sooner as scum), it has to do with tone.

They're absolutely not stretches with hastily made conclusions, especially considering the fact that I tend to read them on these things in other games as well.

I don't think Rag is the easy vote here and I'm not sure why you think she is? She had two rvs votes on her that I don't take into consideration because they should be moved if not serious. And before I brought up my thoughts on Rag others were town reading her. It feels like you honed in on my reads list and read no other posts in the game.


As for you and Tristan, it was explained in my reads list. I'm bad at reading you both. Tristan seems a bit scummy to me and usually when I read him scum he's town. So I don't want to mislynch town d1 on a **** read. I feel like I can solve him and you with more posts. Rag I feel like is someone who will become more inactive the less interested she gets. And I actually felt like she was my strongest case after thinking about everyone.
Ok, this is all I needed, thank you.
 

Chevywolf30

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I'mnot getting your point, are you saying you like or dislike Rag?
I've liked her, I was saying I was with you on this because I don't get where everyone's coming from on her. Y'all also know I've been out of town so I haven't been wholly invested in this game as I'd like, so that's part of it.
 

Morbid Minish

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@Morbid Minish This post kind of makes me negate your meta view on Rag based on the game in question.

So what if Ex is scum here and I'm town? You would take his word over mine just because he saw it differently? The thing is, as I already explained, that game was unusual in that we were scum but not really. However we weren't entirely sure how the setup was to begin with. And what Ex is talking about is something that happened after we had figured out the game a little more and realized we needed town's help. My read of Rag from that game is coming from before that and also how she interacted with the person we were trying to keep our alignment secret from.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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So what if Ex is scum here and I'm town? You would take his word over mine just because he saw it differently? The thing is, as I already explained, that game was unusual in that we were scum but not really. However we weren't entirely sure how the setup was to begin with. And what Ex is talking about is something that happened after we had figured out the game a little more and realized we needed town's help. My read of Rag from that game is coming from before that and also how she interacted with the person we were trying to keep our alignment secret from.
Yeah you are right, he could potentially twist that if he was scum here, the onverse could also be true. But, after all of this I'm convinced you are actually doing what you feel is right and not BSing, and I like that, which is why I've backed off.

I'll ISO Rag, idk if I'm feeling a Libk lynch.
 

Ragnarokio

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I think Rag would absolutely say she's playing to her scum meta as scum. She's very smart and knows that something like that would look favorable.

for what its worth, i probably wouldn't. I appreciate the compliment but I don't think that calling your own play scummy makes you look good. Some percentage of players might heistantly town-read you for it but in general its the kind of statement that will leave people feeling uncomfortable about you, I think.
 
Joined
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Day 1 Vote Count 4

Ragnarokio (4) (Rubik, Pen, Minish, mikey)
Libk (3) (ExLight, Johnny, rag)
ExLight (1) (Kirino)
Pen (1) (Mido)
Mez (1) (Chevy)

Not Voting (3) Mellow Ezlo, SMS, Libk,

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to reach a majority. The day will end on Friday, March 19th at 10pm MST. (About 3.5 hours)
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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my understanding was this wasn't allowed




i feel like this generally isn't true. ZD in general seems to have trouble designing balanced games and so i can imagine it might be the case here sometimes. On most of the sites i've played on though games are designed so that they can't be solved mechanically and that reads are necessary. I've also never personally seen a forum mafia game where people don't engage in deep thinking and do things like wagon or tone analysis to try and determine people's alignment. I have seen those kinds of things eschewed in some chat mafia settings though, like epicmafia or town of salem, and I enjoy those games less because of it, so i see where you're coming from.
Discussion on roles spurred by Ex, seems fine and is part of the discussions that broke us out of RVS, in my mind. Nothing remarkable though.

if you said "i'm going to target funnier tonight" then it would be the same as claiming "i have a role that can target funnier tonight" which would definitely be a claim about your role. Depending on the context it might further act as a soft (ie: if funnier was the top wagon when you said it people might speculate that you said that with the intent of communicating that it would be better not to lynch funnier today because of your role)
A follow up to the same discussion from the quote above, if anything it's good if Ex is Town because she talked him out of ideas on how to soft which isn't something we should be trying to rely on considering the rules. But overall, meh. I think at the time it was these posts I was liking that made me intially feel om about Rag, but in hindsight it's not as great as I was feeling at the time.

in any case it seems to go against the general spirit of having game discussion not be about roles at all and instead be about player actions, so i imagine bok wouldn't be happy with it.
Another follow up to Ex.

are you scared?
Directed at Chevy when he became a talking point.

someone in your position might be scared when they suddenly become the topic of discussion
More engagement with Chevy.

why would it be your fault if you were lynched and not the fault of the people misreading you?
Again, towards Chevy.

I feel like in a situation where someone is thought to be lying and punished for it, but was actually telling the truth, that people wouldn't typically blame the person who was telling the truth for "getting into a situation where they were branded as a liar"
Chevy talk.

It doesn't in reality, but it might describe how chevy sees it (people misreading him for his initial attack and then lynching him as a result is akin to people punishing someone for lying when they didn't). I don't think anyone is actually scumreading them though, so it doesn't really match in this case. If chevy was feeling persecuted as a result of the comments being made about them then it might have described their situation from their perspective though.
Ok, with everything on Chevy piled together my final thoughts are probably in line with Kirino and Minish now. It's sort of CWAC, I krpt thinling at the time her concern over Chevy probably comes from a legitimate townie mindset, but overall the content is mainly one line interactions asking him how he feels, and then analysis on why he might have done the things he did from his mindset. It would probably be really good content if Chevy was a wagon at the time, but pretty much everyone chalked it up to him being new.

how does it remind you of that game, or is it just a vibes thing?



fwiw i can't control my meta, if i could i'd have a much more successful track record as scum. Its just that my play isn't absolutely invariable as either alignment and so there are going to be exceptions.

with that said I think my play this game so far matches my scum meta much more than my town meta. I haven't attacked anyone and that should probably be a big red flag in theory. In reality its just an exception though. As town my plan of attack day 1 is to wait until someone pings me and then relentlessly attack them for the rest of the game in an effort to read and possibly kill them. Chevy and SMS both pinged me (chevy b/c they seemed to feel guilty at having received attention and persecution complexes are more common among scum than among town ime and SMS b/c they said they liked my contributions despite my having not contributed anything, which struck me as them wanting to throw a read out without it being substantiated). In both cases their followup made me lose interest though, and no one else has really stuck out so far.
Admits her press on Chevy came from a mindset thst he might be scum, I guess? Had a similar concern on me from my early analysis where I said Rag was giving me good vibes because she was at least contributing. Also admits she is playing within her scum meta. Idk how to take that atm.

i can't remember much about that game but my recollection of how i approached the thread was that most of what i said served the purpose of either gathering information or conditioning people to be more receptive towards the rebellion. I did do some camoflauging that game but probably not a lot of it, and most if not all of the questioning i did probably served the purpose of information gathering or advancing the gamestate rather than diverting attention away from me.

Its been a while though
Stuff about that NGA, matbe useful insight l, idk.

Unvote, Vote: Libk

libk hasn't really said enough all game to be readable but thats probably a good enough reason to lynch them and it beats letting myself be lynched
Decides to vote Libk because he hasn't said much and wants to self preserve.

for what its worth, i probably wouldn't. I appreciate the compliment but I don't think that calling your own play scummy makes you look good. Some percentage of players might heistantly town-read you for it but in general its the kind of statement that will leave people feeling uncomfortable about you, I think.
Her most recent post, the whole debate of would someone say they are being scummy as scum or not is all just wifom and ultimately can go either way. The thing is I could totally see this being something scum Rag would bring up and I think she did some similar gambits in Spider Man Mafia?

Considering I still feel good about Kirino, and Minish's conviction on her own reads, and after this ISO, I'm thinking Rag is maybe the best option today.

Vote: Rag
 

Kirino

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I'm not particularly suspicious of either Libk or Rag right now, but I'd probably rather go for Libk because he's been almost completely inactive and has shown little inclination to fix that. While I see the point that he's an easy mislynch, he's being targeted more for inactivity rather than his actions, and his wagon hasn't been that widely supported. This vote will lead to a tie, but I'm fine with that, given that the rules mean my vote just won't count if it ends up that way.

Vote: Libk
 

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