Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I thought the same, but how do you explain the night scene then? I don't think it was a doctor, because the way the scene is written just doesn't work with one, and Deku seems to take great care in writing his scenes properly. If you're entertaining the possibility of there not being a Commuter in the game, how do you explain that night scene? Is there a different role you've got in mind that could result in flavour text like that?

Honestly, the signs point more towards it than against it (I did present the theory, after all). I just know how well kokirion can fake-claim; there will always be that shade of doubt there for me, regardless how unlikely. That's just how I view him as a player.

It would also reveal why I put commuter in my list of possible power roles, and why I'm quick to believe your claim without questioning the commuter part. I'd claim harder, but I think you used the role claim for today.

A second commuter, huh? I wouldn't be surprised, and if true, you're most likely kokirion's color counterpart. Speculating on the mechanics of these roles will be counterproductive to the town.

The list grows smaller..... does anyone know if Night Owl has a history of fake-claiming? Two commuters in one game is something I've never seen, although I can see the balance coming from their limited uses.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

I was expecting there to be a second commuter tbh. Night Owl would be stupid to fake claim so I'm inclined to believe it.

 

[Soul]

Honestly, the signs point more towards it than against it (I did present the theory, after all). I just know how well kokirion can fake-claim; there will always be that shade of doubt there for me, regardless how unlikely. That's just how I view him as a player.

I've been wary of him all game, because I've heard about how good he is. In this case I can't think of any way he's scum who's fake claiming though. Tristan brought up the Hider, which is of course another possibility, but also a Town role, so it doesn't change much. If you can't bring up any reasoning of why you think he's fake claiming, then your suspicion isn't credible, reputation or not.

A second commuter, huh? I wouldn't be surprised, and if true, you're most likely kokirion's color counterpart. Speculating on the mechanics of these roles will be counterproductive to the town.

The list grows smaller..... does anyone know if Night Owl has a history of fake-claiming? Two commuters in one game is something I've never seen, although I can see the balance coming from their limited uses.

I assume that every role is doubled, one colour each, so I think it's very likely there's a second Commuter if kokirion is indeed one.

As for Night Owl's softclaim, I'll have to make up my mind on that one. It's certainly possible it's true. If he's scum who's fake claiming, the real second Commuter can come out and counterclaim, thereby exposing him. Since that's the case, I won't vote for him at this time. kokirion's reasoning makes sense to me, though I personally find Vergo to be more suspicious, and possibly a better lynch candidate if no one counterclaims Night Owl.

 

[ectoBiologist]

I wasn't alerted about any of the past 4 pages. What the heck, ZD? I didn't even know when the Day ended. I almost missed the end of the Day. The only reason I got alerted now is because ALiT tagged me. I don't know what the problem is, but it's messing me up. I keep thinking people are being inactive or something, and not getting notifications makes me forget to even check to see. Sorry for the inactivity, guys.

@Toxic_Snowman what are your thoughts on the current situation? We haven't heard from you since close to the beginning of the game day.

Again, sorry about that. I'll try to find a way to fix the issue, or something. I had to skim the past few pages in the interest of time, so I'm not 100% sure on some things, but I think I have a good overview of the situation. People seem to have their own suspicions that are vastly different from one another.

Soul and Jamie had a bit of a disagreement there, which I made sure to read those posts, and honestly, I'd side with Soul. His post made sense in the context of Day 1, and we really weren't 100% sure if Storm was Town, even though I suspected he was. It really wasn't all that scummy to me, but I get what you mean, Jamie.

I seem to be more thought of as leaning towards Mafia than Town, most likely due to my inactivity, and my no vote for Day 1. Like I've said, I didn't really get why a no lynch would be bad on Day 1, but people corrected me, so I understand now. It was an honest mistake. Also, someone (Can't remember who. Was it ALiT, maybe?) brought up my vote for FroCho on Day 2. I voted for FroCho for a few reasons. One, he was going after Johnny with little evidence. Two, I felt as if Johnny was Town, so I didn't think lynching him was the best idea. And three, my vote wouldn't really matter anyway, like you guys have said, but I wanted to get my point across about who I felt suspicious of. I don't really think FroCho is scum anymore, because his VT claim seems more logical now, so I wouldn't vote them.

For who I would vote, though, I'm not sure. I still don't have any solid candidates, but I'll take the time to look over this up coming night the pages I had to skim, so I can formulate a plan for tomorrow. Again, sorry about being inactive. I didn't mean to, but I'll try to do better from now on.

 

[ectoBiologist]

Oh, and just to fulfill the post requirements, it seems like Night Owl soft claimed commuter? I'd believe it. It's not an extremely valuable role, but it's still another Town, so honestly, there wouldn't be a reason to fakeclaim, but Mafia would probably still like to know who is one, so they can figure out (If they have odd/even night restrictions as well) who to kill on what Night, I guess?

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

If you can't bring up any reasoning of why you think he's fake claiming, then your suspicion isn't credible, reputation or not.

Look, I never flat out accused him of fake-claiming. I'm the one that made sense of the claim and pointed it out to you, on top of me absolutely never flat-out saying I think he's mafia. There's a difference between not believing someone 100% and keeping the door open to doubt, and flat-out saying you think they're lying to your face. You harping on this, painting me as "not credible", and along with what you said below is somewhat alarming.

kokirion's reasoning makes sense to me, though I personally find Vergo to be more suspicious, and possibly a better lynch candidate if no one counterclaims Night Owl.

I guess I've been dropping too subtle hints. If you would all kindly re-read my response to kokirion, that'd be great.

 

[Night Owl]

Mido has been playing it safer than even I have been. Looking back at his posts I don't think he has cast a vote besides the extension on day two. This feels like he is trying to fly under the radar.

I think vergo might be on to something about mido.

 

[Soul]

Look, I never flat out accused him of fake-claiming. I'm the one that made sense of the claim and pointed it out to you, on top of me absolutely never flat-out saying I think he's mafia. There's a difference between not believing someone 100% and keeping the door open to doubt, and flat-out saying you think they're lying to your face. You harping on this, painting me as "not credible", and along with what you said below is somewhat alarming.

I had a feeling I had worded that poorly. I didn't mean to say you're not credible. All I meant to say is based on your reasoning, I didn't see how kokirion's claim could be anything but true, unless the real Even Night Commuter doesn't want to claim for whatever reason.

I guess I've been dropping too subtle hints. If you would all kindly re-read my response to kokirion, that'd be great.

I'm assuming this is what you're talking about:

I agree that there's at least one mafia member that's more familiar with the player base that we have here. I still don't fully believe your soft-claim (as I said in my last post, who could possibly counter-claim when there's no way to know if we were targeted by the mafia during the night? This could be a gamble that there's no real communter in the game and you're seeing if you can pull off the fake-claim, which I've definitely seen you do before), but let's assume for the purposes of this analysis that it's true and you really are town.

Replying to the bolded part especially: If I was the real Commuter who used his night ability, I could tell from the night scene that I was targeted. I would immediately have counter claimed upon reading kokirion's post, being certain that I've found scum trying to fake-claim. The fact that no one did gives his claim credibility.

If kokirion is indeed fake-claiming, then there has to be a different explanation for the night scene, or the real Commuter simply hasn't spoken up. Why he would do that is beyond me.

 

[Soul]

goddamn ****ing quote tags, every single time. D:

 

[DekuNut]

@Frozen Chosen is the only player to not yet reach the post quota.

 

[Viral Maze]

You essentially said "mislynching a townie is fine because it increases our chances of lynching scum", what poor logic. You know what increases our chances even higher? Not mislynching a townie, and lynching scum instead. You're saying it's okay to mislynch because it slightly increases the probability of lynching scum, when really, it's never a good thing to mislynch town, especially since you mentioned mislynching on day 2 and 3. Sounds like you're trying to make yourself clear of mislynching townies whenever. Sorry, super scummy. Maybe it's newb play, seems like scum play to me.

You know you're strawmanning here right? After Soul, who would you say is your second largest suspicion?

We don't trust each other, and rightfully so. Although I will say your not voting for me today eases up my suspicions that your claim is fake after the way you aggressively pursued Pendio a while back; I think if you were mafia you'd go after me full-force seeing as others such as ALIT are beginning to warm up to the idea as well (I'm getting vibes from Viral that he's the same way).

After ~8 hours of working outside at work, I'm a bit fuzzy in the head. Explain what you meant by the bolded part?

goddamn ****ing quote tags, every single time. D:

Make sure there is end quote tags at the end of your post. Preview post is your friend too.

Also this Night Owl sitch, I'm not fully sold on the claim yet. It seems to easy, especially once we established Koki is most likely one of our commuters. It's an easy claim for scum to make to try to force a counter claim and out the other commuter (so they don't waste a NK on the wrong night). It seems desperate at 1 vote and I would only imagine a goon to do this (not a mafia PR).
Not saying Night Owl is scum, or a goon, but I think its feasible enough to warrant some grains of salt. Time will tell though.

@HeroOfTime What do you think of Night Owl?

 

[HeroOfTime]

You know you're strawmanning here right? After Soul, who would you say is your second largest suspicion?



After ~8 hours of working outside at work, I'm a bit fuzzy in the head. Explain what you meant by the bolded part?



Make sure there is end quote tags at the end of your post. Preview post is your friend too.

Also this Night Owl sitch, I'm not fully sold on the claim yet. It seems to easy, especially once we established Koki is most likely one of our commuters. It's an easy claim for scum to make to try to force a counter claim and out the other commuter (so they don't waste a NK on the wrong night). It seems desperate at 1 vote and I would only imagine a goon to do this (not a mafia PR).
Not saying Night Owl is scum, or a goon, but I think its feasible enough to warrant some grains of salt. Time will tell though.

@HeroOfTime What do you think of Night Owl?

I don't think I've got enough of a read on Night Owl as of yet, but he's leaning town from what I can see. His posts were few, but helpful and thought-out, not scummy. I'm not sold on him, but I think he's innocent. His claim is the only thing I can see as of yet that warrents suspicion, so so far, I think he's town. If he and I survive later on into the game, I may change my opinion, but not right now. Also,

Unvote

I don't know who to vote for at this point, but I'm unvoting Viral now because I may be gone all tomorrow.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

I'm assuming this is what you're talking about:

Not even close. I was hoping people would catch something else entirely from it not pertaining to that part at all.

I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread tomorrow though (I have the day off). I want to see what happens next before I go further with anything.

 

[Soul]

Not even close. I was hoping people would catch something else entirely from it not pertaining to that part at all.

There is something else I caught about your post, but I don't know wether you'd want me to make that public.
Do you have anything to say about my reasoning about why koki's claim seems legit?

 

[Jamie]

You know you're strawmanning here right? After Soul, who would you say is your second largest suspicion?

Raj, I'm surprised. Look at his aggressive responses to me, you don't think that's scummy? Also it's hard to pin other people since I just jumped in this. Like I said earlier I'm confident in my game and I think Soul is scum. Take it or leave it. Lynch me if you think I'm grasping for a town lunch.