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Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

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HeroOfTime

Challenger Approaching!
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Location
Hyrule
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Mail
I have not gotten a very good read on Hero of Time yet. He has not been very active and the game has not been going on for too long. I gather he is rather new to Mafia though, but that is mostly it.

My apologies, I've been pretty backed up with homework this week. Plus I really haven't had as much to say this game day, last time, I was being questioned, threw my opinion in a few times, etc, but I really don't know what to do for today. I'll probably be a tad quiet for the next few irl days unless I know something or are questioned.
 

Pen

The game is on!
My apologies, I've been pretty backed up with homework this week. Plus I really haven't had as much to say this game day, last time, I was being questioned, threw my opinion in a few times, etc, but I really don't know what to do for today. I'll probably be a tad quiet for the next few irl days unless I know something or are questioned.

It is okay. When I was new to Mafia I was amongst the more quiet players too. I remember finding it difficult to know what to say or what to do even when I was with the Town. Scum hunting will come naturally to you once you get into the game more. Though of course it is always good if you at least try to scum hunt as best you can. If all you do is answer questions and respond to accusations, not only will you have a pretty bad chance of finding scum, but you will also risk becoming a lynch candidate for not contributing. Always remember that an active communication in the Town during the day is extremely valuable. Try and stay as open as possible by sharing your thoughts and suspicions.
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Wherever history is in the making
Do you understand why I find that play in particular to be suspicious? To be fair, there was quite some time between your initial post and Frozen Chosen's, and during that time you could easily have made that post, simply because there's no logical reason not to.
I can see how it would be your playstyle though. I don't have any prior experience playing with you, but from what I can gather in this game, you like making long, thought out posts, not inherently a bad thing to do, and I can see where you're coming from.

Yes and no. I understand your guys' way of though, but from my perspective I find it hard to grasp.
I never post something I do not think through. Not just posting, the same counts for in my offline life. I am relatively careful with my words. My way of thinking in every situation is very calculative. If I have a busy day, and suddenly realise the mafia might have an option to overcome to suggested protection, and if we still have a few days left before the night comes in, I would never impulsively post a chaotic message about it. It only just popped into my mind, so I would close my laptop and first calculate how likely the threat is, and then think all scenarios through before addressing it.
Rather, from my point of view I'd say I'm very open about my thoughts in this game. The sole fact that I shared that I was also thinking about the possibility of an RB'er. Why would I share that if I would be trying to cover up my trail?

A couple of years ago, my playstyle was, regardless of my alignment, to survive. Every move I made in the game would be to ensure my survival. Even if I was town, I didn't mind getting rid of fellow townies that posed a threat to me, and I was very conscious about behaving in a way people see as townish. But nowadays, when looking back to those early years, I think I played terrible. Manipulation-wise I was proud, but I had not contributed anything to my faction, at most I pretended I did. Already since Radiant Historia Mafia did I completely change this .


Also, you still have not explained my emotional posts to me, even though I asked you to clarify it yesterday. Is it a good or a bad thing? Is it something new I do? And when have I been so explicitly emotional, might I ask? I am afraid I do not quite understand what you mean.
Because I felt I made my points quite clear. No need to add more to that and make it a back-and-forth-game. I wasn't planning on lynching you, I merely wanted you to be aware of that.



You think too highly of me, old friend. What you are describing here sounds to me like a sly and cunning mastermind. I could not do this even if I wanted to. And as it stands, I am not even suspicious of you to the point where I want you dead. I am just wary of you, but quite frankly I am wary about every player in the game. The only reason I seem to have expressed it mostly towards you is because you are amongst the more active players, you have been quite suspicious of me, and also because you and I seem to see certain things differently when it comes to this game. However, keep in mind that this does not mean I want to lynch you. You are indeed a bit suspicious to me, but so is every player (more or less).
I do think highly of you, bro. But I meant to say here that from my memory about you, this is how you always start your clashes. To slowly build it up towards a vote a few ingame days later. Maybe you don't do it consciously, but you've done that before. I would rather discuss my "scumminess" during day 2 than during the final day when my position is ever far worse.
 

kokirion

Just like you. But cooler
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Wherever history is in the making
So you're pretty much saying when you're trusted, you're scum, and when you're not trusted, you're town, as a general rule...

Almost!
But no, it was rather a joking way to tell those who played a couple of games with me that they should look at the statistics, because it has indeed often been the other wat around. It's not strange though. Often when I did was scum I tried harder to survive, whereas as a townie I opened up more, which also made me look more scummy.

My point is that this is simply my way of thought. I can still be town or scum, but opposed to immediatly seeing my open playstyle as scummy and my closed playstyle as more trustable, rather, look at my actions.

The only things that happened so far have been that I saw Storm as town. I was right about that, and I was one of the few that advocated not to waste our day 1 lynch on such an obvious townie. I later also stated that he was probably not an important townie either. At the time, I very specifically said that I expected there to be no VT's, and that Dekunut replaced these by weak power roles. I was right about this too (not the VT's though), he was half a roleblocker. I never specifically stated that the odd-even-night system was at play, because I saw that as dangerous for my own protection to reveal that, but this did was an obvious reference to it. I then also figured out there probably was a second doctor and designed a system to protect Malon. And look at the results, maybe it was due to something else, but the bottom line is that Malon is still alive. At the very least my plan didn't fail. And to further build on this, I questioned Pendio's alginment, but later also concluded that he was actually more likely to be town.

Now imagine that I would be scum. First. Why would I try not to lynch Storm? No one would've noticed if I would've applauded his lynch, had I only pretended to be super salty. Many other players like Tristan did so too, and didn't end up looking scummy. So a certain town-lynch on day 1, and possibly even a doctor or important townie that dies! That would be a great hit. If I'd be mafia, if I would look at all my options, this would be a move that's so much more effective. Secondly, why would I try to protect Storm/Malon in the first place. I could also just not have suggested that. And then comes this whole RB thingy, but I honestly do not see the possible advantage for me if I'd be mafia to tell OR not tell this. It seems rather irrelevant to me.
Then comes my theory about there being many weak town power roles. I could've just guessed this and made it up, but I would've been really lucky though if I genuinely did not have any info about that in my own role.
And finally Pendio. I think I had enough arguments against him to keep that clash going on. withdrawing hurt me more than I gained from it. As a townie I did that because I honestly changed my mind. As mafia I would not care, I would've ingored the evidence that no one else picked up anyway, and continued.

I'm not saying I cannot be scum. But if I compare the 2 paragraphs above, I could not imagine I would make so many of the choices I did if I were mafia. Because out of all the options I could've chosen, these would've been the most suicidal. There were far better options, as I noted, that no one else would probably have picked up anyhow. So no need to specifically play suicidal as some sort of dubble-bluff.

that is why I do not understand the wariness from my own point of view. I'd say this game I'm more obviously town than I've every been before, lol. Let this game then be a lesson about Kokirion's playstyle.

You bashed Pendio for his appealing to emotion, but you're committing an anecdotal fallacy here.

FoS: Kokirion
Also, love that fancy term!
 

Pen

The game is on!
Because I felt I made my points quite clear. No need to add more to that and make it a back-and-forth-game. I wasn't planning on lynching you, I merely wanted you to be aware of that.

Just because you think that you make your own point quite clear does not mean it was clear enough. Judging your own posts like that is one thing. It is impossible to fairly judge yourself. But flat out ignoring/refusing to respond to a question is something quite different, and from my point of view it does not make you look very good. I understand that you wanted to make me aware of something, however, since you have yet to clarify yourself for me, I cannot be aware of whatever it was that you tried informing me about.

that is why I do not understand the wariness from my own point of view. I'd say this game I'm more obviously town than I've every been before, lol. Let this game then be a lesson about Kokirion's playstyle.

Just earlier you said that (statistically) you are scum whenever you seem to be "obviously" Town. Saying what you say in this quote does not exactly help your case.

Also, love that fancy term!

Again, you seemingly just nonchalantly wave away something that was addressing you. This makes it quite ironic actually, since you are the one who has been accusing others of "appealing to emotion". Is there a reason why you keep ignoring questions directed at you?

Finally I would just like to make it very clear that I am not specifically suspicious of you, Kirion. I am just pointing these things out because I can and because I see the opportunity to. And then of course there is always the chance that you are in fact scum, and that I might start actually suspecting you later on. I just want to stay as alert as I can, and I am doing that by posting and questioning players to keep the discussion going. Because a strong discussion often equals a strong Town (especially if all the Townies want to join the discussion). ;)
 

Johnny Sooshi

Just a sleepy guy
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Location
a Taco Bell dumpster
I'll toss in a quick two cents. Like I stated in the previous day, I'm suspicious of both Pendio and kokirion. The back and fort makes it seem as though either one could be scum. In fact I'll go out on a limb here and say that one of you is scum. More or less it's about who is actually scum. I'm going to go over posts made by the both of you and put them all in order, and then share it along with my input. This probably won't happen til later today or tonight cause I've got some things I need to do today. But look forward to it. :bubsy:
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
Okay guys really sorry about this but my cat has legit vomited all over my mafia notes. This is why we need a mafia plugin for the forum so that no pesky cats can vomit over your notes! I am so sick and tired of having to use physical notes when all my ****ing cat does is walk over them with her messy feet and then expects a fuss in return. Oh thanks for ruining an hours work I'm sure the scum will love you for it! Can we lynch my cat now please?
 

Pen

The game is on!
I'll toss in a quick two cents. Like I stated in the previous day, I'm suspicious of both Pendio and kokirion. The back and fort makes it seem as though either one could be scum. In fact I'll go out on a limb here and say that one of you is scum. More or less it's about who is actually scum. I'm going to go over posts made by the both of you and put them all in order, and then share it along with my input. This probably won't happen til later today or tonight cause I've got some things I need to do today. But look forward to it. :bubsy:

Should be interesting to see what you come up with. I do think it is quite possible though that both Kirion and I are Town. Of course one of us could be Mafia (or even both, hypothetically), but do not force any suspicions. There is always the chance of us just being two Townies debating.

Okay guys really sorry about this but my cat has legit vomited all over my mafia notes. This is why we need a mafia plugin for the forum so that no pesky cats can vomit over your notes! I am so sick and tired of having to use physical notes when all my ****ing cat does is walk over them with her messy feet and then expects a fuss in return. Oh thanks for ruining an hours work I'm sure the scum will love you for it! Can we lynch my cat now please?

I am so sorry to hear that Dan, but what did this post add to the discussion? Why did you feel the need to share that, and only that information, in this post? Mind sharing any suspicions you might have instead? Or just any general thoughts you might have about the game. ^^
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
Should be interesting to see what you come up with. I do think it is quite possible though that both Kirion and I are Town. Of course one of us could be Mafia (or even both, hypothetically), but do not force any suspicions. There is always the chance of us just being two Townies debating.



I am so sorry to hear that Dan, but what did this post add to the discussion? Why did you feel the need to share that, and only that information, in this post? Mind sharing any suspicions you might have instead? Or just any general thoughts you might have about the game. ^^

I keep notes of the game on paper as I can't remember details otherwise. Most of my notes have been destroyed and thus I'm a weak link in the chain-link fence when it comes to this game. This opens me up to suspicious, my post was made to alert you all of this and as a bit of an apology.

Regardless I'll use my memory for now which isn't the best as I've got many different items on my agenda.
So far Kokirion is on my Dandar, he is inconsistent and unpredictable like a Pokemon deck filled with
 

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Location
eh?
Gender
Slothkin
Thanks for being so helpful Dan! Your contributions in this game are just astounding. /s

srsly tho, it'd be nice if you made an actual contribution instead of saying bull**** like that. I mean if not, you're more than welcome to join your good buddy Storm. I wouldn't object.

Anyway, regarding the ongoing banter between Pendio and Kokirion, I agree with Johnny in that at least one of them is most likely scum. Unfortunately, they've both done/said things that could be perceived as scummy, and they're both traditionally extremely crafty and manipulative players, so it's really hard to tell at this point which one. Maybe it's a town vs. town thing too, or maybe they're both scum and are simply calling each other out as some sort of bluff?

On the topic of Sadia's death, I don't think it's all that surprising. Several have already made the point about her potentially being a threat to the mafia later on, so maybe we can look at those who have played against her (it's been a while since she was really active in a game though iirc so I may take a look at some of the previous games a little later to see). I also agree in that she may have been targeted simply because she was inactive, but for a different reason than has been stated. If I were scum and wanted to target an inactive, it wouldn't be because it's an easy kill but because then the active players would still be alive. Even from a mafia's perspective, active games are way more fun to play than inactive ones. Killing the active players instead of the inactive ones slows the game down a lot.

Now it's time for me to look back at Pendio and Kokirion's posts, so I'll see y'all later!
 

Doc

BoDoc Horseman
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Gender
Male
Sorry, like others, for not posting yet today. I wanted to, but didn't really have time to read through all the posts before now.

I would very much like to vote for Pendio right now, and try to get rid of him. I do not understand his accusations against me, which seem to me as a smear campaign. He never even mentioned me until I mentioned him (that was clearly an OMGUS response). Every further accusation has either been an emotional one or a distortion of facts. Officially he's not voting for me, but (and knowing Pendio) this is obviously a prelude to an open attack on me later in the game. Throwing around enough suspicion, making people doubt me for long enough, distorting facts, and when they start to get a life of their own it will be a vote.
But I'm not gonna vote for Pendio. Because as I said, after re-analysing the situation, the evidence at hand right now tells me he's more likely to be town. So at this moment I'm not gonna campaign to lynch Pendio. Nonetheless, I do not understand his actions (scum OR town)

Do you mind elaborating on this "evidence" that leads you to believe Pendio is most likely town? For the most part, this looks like a post on why Pendio is scummy and why he should be lynched, but then backing out...for reasons?
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Sorry guys, I've been busy today and it's late, but I'll gather some thoughts tomorrow. ,
Okay guys really sorry about this but my cat has legit vomited all over my mafia notes. This is why we need a mafia plugin for the forum so that no pesky cats can vomit over your notes! I am so sick and tired of having to use physical notes when all my ****ing cat does is walk over them with her messy feet and then expects a fuss in return. Oh thanks for ruining an hours work I'm sure the scum will love you for it! Can we lynch my cat now please?
You should give Salem a stern talking to.
 

Dan

Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Gender
V2 White Male
Thanks for being so helpful Dan! Your contributions in this game are just astounding. /s

srsly tho, it'd be nice if you made an actual contribution instead of saying bull**** like that. I mean if not, you're more than welcome to join your good buddy Storm. I wouldn't object.

I was being serious. I wasn't aware people would object to it. Next time I'll take evidence just for you. :bubsy:
 

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Location
eh?
Gender
Slothkin
I was being serious. I wasn't aware people would object to it. Next time I'll take evidence just for you. :bubsy:
thanks friend, much obliged. Sooner rather than later would be nice but I'm not picky! What kind of evidence have you gathered so far? If you're worried about your nonexistent piece if paper with notes that got vomited on, rereading the thread is an option, and perhaps consider taking notes virtually rather than on paper so as to prevent "incidents" like your aforementioned vomiting incident from occurring again! ^^
 
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