Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

[Soul]

I'm thinking this was just the fact that Hero is new to this and probably has seen that whenever someone makes such claims that they usually are told to prove it. However, this is still probably worth looking in to.

It's the best lead I can come up with anyway. Kokirion mentioned Pendio, who I'm willing to give a pass for now, seeing as his reasoning for initially voting Storm is sound, and he hasn't done anything else that's scummy to me.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

Lets go with the latter.
And since youre not Tristan tge high and Mighty, i will not answer the question

Lol, so you've resorted to insults. btw, refusing to answer questions like that is about one of the scumminess things you can do.

I cant agree to something i cant do. The Medic Claim was a farse and moreover a joke to disuade and buy me time, because i have an important role. One that the Synths would try to kill if they knew i was it. Because i hold in my hand the difference between heaven and hell

If this is true, that was absolutely and ridiculously stupid. Fakeclaiming doctor forced the supposed real doctor (whose claim now holds a lot of water) to come out and counterclaim, giving the mafia a really easy night kill target. So you indirectly sacrificed one of the most important town power roles in a completely useless attempt to buy yourself more time. Well guess what, you just saI'd yourself that you have a role the mafia would try to kill, which means they have 2 people to worry about tonight... which means one of you will likely die and the other roleblocked. Do you realize how heavily flawed and downright stupid this plan of yours was? It makes no sense, doesn't help you at all, and sacrifices one of our most important roles.

All I get from this is that you are mafia and wanted to do something to expose the real doctor. I have a hard time seeing a play with such a weird strategy. A Townie wouldn't sacrifice other Townies like that, at least not the doctor.

What increases this suspicion is the fact that you didn't roleclaim, you name claimed. You have clear TF2 knowledge so you know the Red Medic is a character in the game, you know about the two cooperating teams because of flavor in the SU thread. Why did you name claim instead of just saying "doctor"? Because you knew there could possibly be a doctor for each colour and claiming the exact role would expose a real doctor, giving you and your mafia buds and easy kill on a powerful town role?

All of this would make sense if Storm was mafia. Don't forget that he also acted really desperate earlier on when the votes on him started building. Mafia don't want to die because they're so heavily outnumbered, so they'll often act desperate in an attempt to gain some sympathy from the other players, thus saving them from a lynch.

Also, remember the good ol' saying over at ZU: "Lynch all liars". Well, Storm already admitted to being a liar.

All of this being taken into account, my vote stands.

This caught my eye. My reaction when I read Malon's post was thinking "please shut up, I hope nobody saw that", yet you inquire for more information? Did you want Malon to reveal his role?

I said that too though, so it's not really fair to just call Hero out on it, especially as a new player. I don't speak for him, but I only wanted Malon to back it up because he brought it up in the first place. The information he had could have been useful to us. Tbh, he shouldn't have brought it up in the first place until a bit later, but since he did, it was better for him to tell us that information.

[unvote] Storm [/unvote]

Incorrect format for voting, this ain't ZU mate



Also, quick question for @Malon: does your role modifier say you can only protect on odd/even nights? This would be good to know. Answer the question but don't say specifically which nights you can protect.

 

[Soul]

I said that too though, so it's not really fair to just call Hero out on it, especially as a new player.

Oh, I don't remember you doing that. I didn't want to bash a newbie though. I don't even know how many games he's played. I brought it up because it picked my interest, and since I'm not convinced of Storm being scum like you are, I'm trying to find leads. Note that I haven't voted for HeroOfTime, only questioned him.

Incidentally, what do you think of my reasoning that Storm can only be town, based on his knowledge of the colours?

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

Incidentally, what do you think of my reasoning that Storm can only be town, based on his knowledge of the colours?

I don't think it confirms him as town at all. Deku outright said in the sign up thread that the two main teams were going to be cooperating in this game, and a quick glance at the wiki indicates that the two teams are RWD and BLU and that each team has nine possible classes (in this case roles). It's not hard to put two and two together and claim a "RED something".

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

RED, not RWD. also Storm himself has indicated that he is quite knowledgeable in this theme, so he'd know about the colours anyway.

 

[Soul]

Hmm, fair enough. I'll think about this.

 

[Pen]

3. There can't be a roleblocker in the mafia.

This here is a brilliant point against Kirion's suggestion. The Mafia Roleblocker is an extremely common role to have in a Mafia group. And I also agree with many other things that Soul has had to say.

Pendio is usually calm and the one set aside his emotions to find a solution. He's not doing that. He can do much better. Which makes me wonder if that's on purpose

To be fair I have not really played Mafia in a year. I am still kind of getting into it again. Besides, it is still just day 1. And I think I am able to keep my calm pretty well.

Yes, I'll agree to use that technique.

Firstly, the mafia member that I believe was trying to trick you is Storm. Secondly, isn't this game supposed to be serious?

So, you agree to protect Storm, but at the same time you believe Storm is a Mafia member? That is pretty much what you are saying in this post. Makes no sense at all to me and it makes you look much scummier than before.

I cant agree to something i cant do. The Medic Claim was a farse and moreover a joke to disuade and buy me time, because i have an important role. One that the Synths would try to kill if they knew i was it. Because i hold in my hand the difference between heaven and hell

I do not even know... This just makes you look even worse to me than you did earlier. As a Town member you clearly do not help us. You only steal attention from the Town during the day and you (may have) revealed out Doctor to the Mafia. Assuming you are in fact with the Town, I do not see any way for you to help us. Especially after seeing how you have been playing up till now. You have much room for improvement, but right now you are the person I want to lynch the most. Besides, fake claiming as the Doctor seem more scummy anyway. In my mind there is a very great chance you are with the Mafia, in which case a lynch on you today would be even better. Either way, I would like to lynch Storm today.

Mijn god.

Now the mafia too knows you're both harmless. Your deaths now will be worthless and pointless.
I'm not gonna help the mafia even more by voting for you, but talking with you guys also ends here

Oh wow, you still seem to be so set on Storm being innocent. You do not even seem to consider the fact that he might be Mafia. Judging by the way he plays there is no chance I am removing my vote. He plays extremely scummy. Even you should not be able to deny that. Fake claiming Doctor? Seriously? And you still blindly seem to believe he is definitely Town? Of course he could be Town, but there is a very good chance he is scum too. No matter what he is, I believe that a Storm lynch today would be for the best. And should Storm die and flip scum, then I will very strongly be on your case tomorrow, Kirion.

Oh and my the way, Kirion, am I honestly the one player in this game that you the most desperately want to see dead? Judging by your vote, it would seem so. I just want to be sure.

 

[Mipha]

Lol, so you've resorted to insults. btw, refusing to answer questions like that is about one of the scumminess things you can do.

If this is true, that was absolutely and ridiculously stupid. Fakeclaiming doctor forced the supposed real doctor (whose claim now holds a lot of water) to come out and counterclaim, giving the mafia a really easy night kill target. So you indirectly sacrificed one of the most important town power roles in a completely useless attempt to buy yourself more time. Well guess what, you just saI'd yourself that you have a role the mafia would try to kill, which means they have 2 people to worry about tonight... which means one of you will likely die and the other roleblocked. Do you realize how heavily flawed and downright stupid this plan of yours was? It makes no sense, doesn't help you at all, and sacrifices one of our most important roles.

All I get from this is that you are mafia and wanted to do something to expose the real doctor. I have a hard time seeing a play with such a weird strategy. A Townie wouldn't sacrifice other Townies like that, at least not the doctor.

What increases this suspicion is the fact that you didn't roleclaim, you name claimed. You have clear TF2 knowledge so you know the Red Medic is a character in the game, you know about the two cooperating teams because of flavor in the SU thread. Why did you name claim instead of just saying "doctor"? Because you knew there could possibly be a doctor for each colour and claiming the exact role would expose a real doctor, giving you and your mafia buds and easy kill on a powerful town role?

All of this would make sense if Storm was mafia. Don't forget that he also acted really desperate earlier on when the votes on him started building. Mafia don't want to die because they're so heavily outnumbered, so they'll often act desperate in an attempt to gain some sympathy from the other players, thus saving them from a lynch.

Also, remember the good ol' saying over at ZU: "Lynch all liars". Well, Storm already admitted to being a liar.

All of this being taken into account, my vote stands.

I said that too though, so it's not really fair to just call Hero out on it, especially as a new player. I don't speak for him, but I only wanted Malon to back it up because he brought it up in the first place. The information he had could have been useful to us. Tbh, he shouldn't have brought it up in the first place until a bit later, but since he did, it was better for him to tell us that information.

Incorrect format for voting, this ain't ZU mate



Also, quick question for @Malon: does your role modifier say you can only protect on odd/even nights? This would be good to know. Answer the question but don't say specifically which nights you can protect.

Yeah, I can only protect on certain nights.

This here is a brilliant point against Kirion's suggestion. The Mafia Roleblocker is an extremely common role to have in a Mafia group. And I also agree with many other things that Soul has had to say.



To be fair I have not really played Mafia in a year. I am still kind of getting into it again. Besides, it is still just day 1. And I think I am able to keep my calm pretty well.



So, you agree to protect Storm, but at the same time you believe Storm is a Mafia member? That is pretty much what you are saying in this post. Makes no sense at all to me and it makes you look much scummier than before.



I do not even know... This just makes you look even worse to me than you did earlier. As a Town member you clearly do not help us. You only steal attention from the Town during the day and you (may have) revealed out Doctor to the Mafia. Assuming you are in fact with the Town, I do not see any way for you to help us. Especially after seeing how you have been playing up till now. You have much room for improvement, but right now you are the person I want to lynch the most. Besides, fake claiming as the Doctor seem more scummy anyway. In my mind there is a very great chance you are with the Mafia, in which case a lynch on you today would be even better. Either way, I would like to lynch Storm today.



Oh wow, you still seem to be so set on Storm being innocent. You do not even seem to consider the fact that he might be Mafia. Judging by the way he plays there is no chance I am removing my vote. He plays extremely scummy. Even you should not be able to deny that. Fake claiming Doctor? Seriously? And you still blindly seem to believe he is definitely Town? Of course he could be Town, but there is a very good chance he is scum too. No matter what he is, I believe that a Storm lynch today would be for the best. And should Storm die and flip scum, then I will very strongly be on your case tomorrow, Kirion.

Oh and my the way, Kirion, am I honestly the one player in this game that you the most desperately want to see dead? Judging by your vote, it would seem so. I just want to be sure.

Yes, it does seem scummy. But I also think that Storm may just be terrible at this game and not actually evil. Also, since he's probably going to get Lynched anyways, it's worth a shot.

 

[Soul]

What I'd like to know is what Storm's supposed power role is. If he's a vigilante, him making a shot could hit a townie. If he's a cop, he could investigate someone and potentially reveal scum, though the chances of him succeeding in that are rather low with 20 players/19 after a lynch alive. If he finds a townie, power role or not, that knowledge is useless, as revealing that player's allegiance would just lead to their nightkill. Can someone who's more well versed in TF2 come up with any other roles he might have?

I'm asking because I want to assess wether keeping him alive for today so he can use his night power once is even worth it. If he has any of the two roles I suggested, it wouldn't be in my eyes.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

Yeah, I can only protect on certain nights.

Alright then, that's good to know. With that, I think it's safe to assume that there are two of every role, one that can use it odd numbered nights and one that can use it even numbered nights. Based on my own colour, I can guess when Malon is able to protect. This knowledge is extremely useful to us because the mafia does not know who can use their roles and when, but we do. We can use this to our advantage.

Note to the town: if you are the same colour as Malon, you probably have the same role restriction as he does. Members of the other colour will likely have the opposite restriction. Keep this in mind because it is good to know.

 

[Pen]

Note to the town: if you are the same colour as Malon, you probably have the same role restriction as he does. Members of the other colour will likely have the opposite restriction. Keep this in mind because it is good to know.

It is definitely an advantage. I suppose putting extra focus on the fact that we do not want any Town member to reveal to the Mafia what colour is able to act on which nights. Let us keep that a purely Town secret for as long as we can.

 

[kokirion]

This here is a brilliant point against Kirion's suggestion. The Mafia Roleblocker is an extremely common role to have in a Mafia group. And I also agree with many other things that Soul has had to say.



To be fair I have not really played Mafia in a year. I am still kind of getting into it again. Besides, it is still just day 1. And I think I am able to keep my calm pretty well.



So, you agree to protect Storm, but at the same time you believe Storm is a Mafia member? That is pretty much what you are saying in this post. Makes no sense at all to me and it makes you look much scummier than before.



I do not even know... This just makes you look even worse to me than you did earlier. As a Town member you clearly do not help us. You only steal attention from the Town during the day and you (may have) revealed out Doctor to the Mafia. Assuming you are in fact with the Town, I do not see any way for you to help us. Especially after seeing how you have been playing up till now. You have much room for improvement, but right now you are the person I want to lynch the most. Besides, fake claiming as the Doctor seem more scummy anyway. In my mind there is a very great chance you are with the Mafia, in which case a lynch on you today would be even better. Either way, I would like to lynch Storm today.



Oh wow, you still seem to be so set on Storm being innocent. You do not even seem to consider the fact that he might be Mafia. Judging by the way he plays there is no chance I am removing my vote. He plays extremely scummy. Even you should not be able to deny that. Fake claiming Doctor? Seriously? And you still blindly seem to believe he is definitely Town? Of course he could be Town, but there is a very good chance he is scum too. No matter what he is, I believe that a Storm lynch today would be for the best. And should Storm die and flip scum, then I will very strongly be on your case tomorrow, Kirion.

Oh and my the way, Kirion, am I honestly the one player in this game that you the most desperately want to see dead? Judging by your vote, it would seem so. I just want to be sure.

Now be honest Pendio. Do you think I would care about Storm's survival if we would both be on the same mafia team? I wouldn't ever risk my name on that.

Neither do I agree with most of the other points you make. But I'll leave the topic of my original plan, because it's no longer viable anyhow. For the other parts, I'm off to bed now, I'll probably respond to it tomorrow. Gives me time to think as well, not to make hasty decisions

 

[Storm]

If i tell you, im a night kill. If i dont im a lynch, so give me a vow you wont lynch and i will reveal and i ask Malon to protectcme tonight as well

 

[Soul]

If i tell you, im a night kill. If i dont im a lynch, so give me a vow you wont lynch and i will reveal and i ask Malon to protectcme tonight as well

Instead of telling us your role, why don't you tell us wether it'll be useful tonight? You're going to die soon either way I'm afraid.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

If i tell you, im a night kill. If i dont im a lynch, so give me a vow you wont lynch and i will reveal and i ask Malon to protectcme tonight as well

What good would that do? Mafia would RB you and kill Malon or vice versa. You've dug yourself into this hole far too deep mate.