The Forgotten Temple

[DragonEleven]

The statues are about the same size. Feel free to look up screen shots if you doubt me. And yea, clearly the giant Hylia statue and two loftwing statues are unrelated to the other giant Hylia statue and 2 loftwing statues. Definitely not the same place. No way that could possibly be a thing.

They are really not the same size... the SS one was probably at least twice the size of the BotW one.
And if you're going to continue to attempt sarcasm, please learn how to do it correctly... you're just embarrassing yourself.

 

[Wolfie]

The Temple of Time on the Great Plateau is called the Temple of Time and looks a lot like the one from OoT but it's obviously not the same temple. The same applies to the Forgotten Temple. Pretty sure that's what @DragonEleven is getting at.

No, they are about the same size. Feel free to compare screen shots. And clearly that is the "Sealed Temple" of Breath of the Wild. Believing anything other than that is dumb because they went out of their way to make it have the same key features, so what if some things changed in well over 10,000 years. If you believe anything else you are wrong.

 

[DragonEleven]

No, they are about the same size. Feel free to compare screen shots. And clearly that is the "Sealed Temple" of Breath of the Wild. Believing anything other than that is dumb because they went out of their way to make it have the same key features, so what if some things changed in well over 10,000 years. If you believe anything else you are wrong.

You clearly have no concept of scale because they are clearly completely different sizes.
And I don't think you understand what key features are, as a few similar decorative items are certainly not key features.
Gate of Time, Master Sword's pedestal/chamber, Goddess Sword's pedestal/chamber, Sky Keep... these are all key features of the Sealed Grounds in SS, but there is no sign of any of them in the Forgotten Temple.
There's also the fact that the Sealed Temple was so much smaller than the Goddess Statue that it would probably have sat comfortably within the Forgotten Temple, but as it doesn't it would have needed to have been destroyed when the Forgotten Temple was built, so there wouldn't be anything left for you to use to back up your argument.

Edit: Just to humour you, I've done a rough estimate of the height of the two Goddess Statues, using Link as a standard (should be fairly consistent between the games)... the one in the Forgotten Temple comes to around 16x to 20x Link's height (difficult to gauge accurately, due to the perspective)... while the one in the Sealed Grounds comes to around 8x Link's height from the hands to the top of the head (too big to accurately scale Link against the whole thing), which is around 1/4 to 1/5 of the total height, making it around 32x to 40x Link's height overall... so as I said, the one in the Forgotten Temple is around half the size.

 

[Wolfie]

So the Giant Hylia statue only being half the size of the other clearly means it can't be the same statue, and the loftwings clearly can't be related. At all. Yea that is definitely not a relatively small cosmetic change that could be explained by developer's preference. Definitely not the same temple simple depicted in two different games.

 

[DragonEleven]

So the Giant Hylia statue only being half the size of the other clearly means it can't be the same statue, and the loftwings clearly can't be related. At all. Yea that is definitely not a relatively small cosmetic change that could be explained by developer's preference. Definitely not the same temple simple depicted in two different games.

That's not a small cosmetic change... as I've already said... the size of the Hylia Statue in SS was important to it's role within the game... Link had to skydive off the hands as part of the ceremony, so the height was important for that... and Goddess Sword's chamber was located within the base of the statue, but that would never fit within the base of the statue in the Forgotten Temple.
It's not just cosmetically different, it's functionally different as well... it's impossible for it to be the same statue.

I don't understand why you're still sticking with the same empty claims... you're not putting up any sort of argument by providing any valid evidence to support your point... every attempt you have made has been disproven, and now you're just repeating yourself like a stubborn child throwing a tantrum.
I'll be happy to continue this discussion if you have anything productive to add, but if you continue like this, then this thread should just be laid to rest.

 

[Wolfie]

That's not a small cosmetic change... as I've already said... the size of the Hylia Statue in SS was important to it's role within the game... Link had to skydive off the hands as part of the ceremony, so the height was important for that... and Goddess Sword's chamber was located within the base of the statue, but that would never fit within the base of the statue in the Forgotten Temple.
It's not just cosmetically different, it's functionally different as well... it's impossible for it to be the same statue.

I don't understand why you're still sticking with the same empty claims... you're not putting up any sort of argument by providing any valid evidence to support your point... every attempt you have made has been disproven, and now you're just repeating yourself like a stubborn child throwing a tantrum.
I'll be happy to continue this discussion if you have anything productive to add, but if you continue like this, then this thread should just be laid to rest.

Um you haven't disproven anything. All you've done is insist repeatedly that the incredibly unrealistic odds that the building having the same statues, including the two bird statues of a species not seen for well over 10,000 years proves nothing despite the insurmountable odds to the contrary that it isn't the billion dollar lotto ticket of coincidences.

And if you think it isn't a minor cosmetic change look at how drastically other buildings and iconic landmarks change between games yet remain the same.

All you've done is insist facts don't matter. You might as well be covering your ears and humming.

 

[DragonEleven]

the two bird statues of a species not seen for well over 10,000 years

I'm also saying that the Forgotten Temple would have been built well over 10,000 years ago... may have even been Loftwings still around at the time... making that point of yours irrelevant.

And if you think it isn't a minor cosmetic change look at how drastically other buildings and iconic landmarks change between games yet remain the same.

A minor cosmetic change to what? The Hylia statue wasn't even inside a temple in SS... it was outside... the Forgotten Temple would have needed to have been built around it, so you can't say that it's a minor cosmetic change to a building that didn't exist. And the statue itself is more than a mere cosmetic change... it's size has changed substantially, making it impossible to serve the same function, so it couldn't be the same statue. You have provided no evidence to the contrary, so that claim just doesn't hold up.

All you've done is insist facts don't matter. You might as well be covering your ears and humming.

All I've done is state facts... you're the one who's just repeating empty claims without any solid facts to support them.

 

[Wolfie]

I'm also saying that the Forgotten Temple would have been built well over 10,000 years ago... may have even been Loftwings still around at the time... making that point of yours irrelevant.


A minor cosmetic change to what? The Hylia statue wasn't even inside a temple in SS... it was outside... the Forgotten Temple would have needed to have been built around it, so you can't say that it's a minor cosmetic change to a building that didn't exist. And the statue itself is more than a mere cosmetic change... it's size has changed substantially, making it impossible to serve the same function, so it couldn't be the same statue. You have provided no evidence to the contrary, so that claim just doesn't hold up.


All I've done is state facts... you're the one who's just repeating empty claims without any solid facts to support them.

The odds that the two loftwing statues and the Hylia statue are unrelated to this temple being the Botw version of the Sealed temple despite having the same icons and being so many years later is so infinitesimally small it isn't worth considering. Your "facts" just argue for that incredibly irrelevant chance. You would have a better odds buying a single lotto ticket and winning. The hints have been dropped and the conclusion we are expected to draw is clear to all but the most pigheaded.

 

[DragonEleven]

The odds that the two loftwing statues and the Hylia statue are unrelated to this temple being the Botw version of the Sealed temple despite having the same icons and being so many years later is so infinitesimally small it isn't worth considering. Your "facts" just argue for that incredibly irrelevant chance. You would have a better odds buying a single lotto ticket and winning. The hints have been dropped and the conclusion we are expected to draw is clear to all but the most pigheaded.

Why are you still stuck on the idea that I think they are unrelated?
I have said repeatedly that are directly related to one another... they are just not the exact same thing.
You don't seem to have followed all of what I have said, as you seem to be completely missing some of the important facts... maybe you should go back and re-read what I've already said (you should probably start around the part about Rauru building a ToT over the Sealed Grounds).

 

[Wolfie]

Why are you still stuck on the idea that I think they are unrelated?
I have said repeatedly that are directly related to one another... they are just not the exact same thing.
You don't seem to have followed all of what I have said, as you seem to be completely missing some of the important facts... maybe you should go back and re-read what I've already said (you should probably start around the part about Rauru building a ToT over the Sealed Grounds).

You've been saying the same thing since the second message so I just read the first line or several words at random. The fact you haven't noticed until now proves you haven't said anything worth my time/new.

 

[DragonEleven]

You've been saying the same thing since the second message so I just read the first line or several words at random. The fact you haven't noticed until now proves you haven't said anything worth my time/new.

If you'd actually been reading what I'd said, you know that wasn't true.

 

[Scoopapa]

There are a lot of interesting ruins in this game. I swear I found a prominent symbol from Zant's robes on a pillar, but I don't remember where. At any rate, the alleged loftwing carvings are also all over old Lanayru Road, so if they are indeed meant to be statues directly out of SS that would seem to warrant some explanation.

There's also evidence to suggest that the Great Plateau is where the old sealed grounds stood.

 

[PalaeoJoe]

If you'd actually been reading what I'd said, you know that wasn't true.

Man I think it's Wolfie's time that isn't worth yours. That fact that he is not reading and trying to understand what you are saying means that he is using only straw man arguments against you. The Zelda Theory and Mature Discussion sections above all other forums here are intended to be places where people use their critical thinking skill and are intellectually honest. Wolfie is not holding up his end of the bargain in discussing this with you.

I want to point out some thing here. The Loftwing seams to be the core emblematic animal of Hyrule. This was true even when OoT first came out, when no one (even developers) new what a Loftwing was. It was on the Hylian Shield and other places as Hyrule's National Crest, I thought it was some kind of Eagle or other raptor. I don't think this creature's form would be forgotten by the creators of the Loftwing statues even if hypothetical the statues were made right before the calamity 100 years prior to BotW.

 

[Wolfie]

The Temple of Time on the Great Plateau is called the Temple of Time and looks a lot like the one from OoT but it's obviously not the same temple. The same applies to the Forgotten Temple. Pretty sure that's what @DragonEleven is getting at.

Use common sense please. The temple is made to have the same key points (statues, imagery, ect) in the same points as the Sealed Temple in Skyward Sword. It is clearly making it painfully obvious to anyone except someone looking to have a pointless debate about nothing that it is supposed to be that temple. Yes it does look slightly different but so does everything else that shows up in more than one game. Even games with the same Link in it has him in different tunics.

The only real problem with it is the location which happens to have moved along with several other locations not being where they are supposed to be. (Like Romani Ranch) and the best way to explain that is that there is clearly some kind of geological reshaping that has occurred in this 10,000 year period that jumbled things around a bit. Like for example the eighth heroine statue being so far from both her sword and the other seven heroine statues.

Maybe it was the same event/s which killed the leviathans and the ice age/major volcanic event/ocean drying up/some mix of the three drastically altered the landscape. Or maybe Nintendo has always played it fast and loose with the lore and they think we are idiots for even talking about it.

 

[Wiggum]

Let me start by saying that I'm not a Zelda history/timeline/storyline buff ... not at all. However, I think I can introduce one common-sense aspect to this discussion that may help everyone out...

First of all, consider the base/common name of this game ... the LEGEND of Zelda, with emphasis on LEGEND.

Legend is built on Lore, and "history" got it's literal name (the word history) from "His Story" ...

We all know that over time, before writing/print that HISTORY was told via verbal stories. There weren't necessarily drawings, plans, blueprints, dimensions, etc. People would have just talked about places, things, temples, forests, etc, as well as what happened with people, heroes, enemies, so on and so forth.

Keep all that in mind when viewing this game, and any other Zelda game. Not every detail needs to be identical to what happened before. Landscapes change over time, at least to a degree. Buildings do start to fall apart and need to be refurbished, renovated, or even rebuilt.

In an effort to keep this post from being too long, I will sum up by saying that there's no real sense in trying to argue about such trivial details about the location of a temple, or its relation to another place from a past version of the game ... or anything else along those lines. In THIS game, the Temple of Time is the Temple of Time, period. There is no interpretation required or even worth pondering. It is what it is.

As for the Forgotten Temple ... I don't know what it is, what it was, or if it even matters. No, wait ... it DOESN'T matter ... there's no significance to it in this game other than it's one more place you need to go to find a shrine, and then eventually go back to in order to get the reward for finding all the other shrines... and, much less importantly, to find a couple of treasure chests and a couple of Koroks/seeds.

That's it ... no need to try to make it something it isn't ...