Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

[Kylo Ken]

I know Nintendo produces low supplies on purpose, but I highly doubt the demand for Fire Emblem games before Awakening were high. We know for fact that sales were abyssmal and the series was gonna be cancelled. I don't know how this remake is gonna handle this, but if it involves going back to the formula that doomed the franchise, that's a no go.

 

[Draymorath]

I'm really looking forward to this one. Always wanted to play one of the older Fire Emblem titles, but without the old. I just hope that there isn't a great deal of censorship and just overall crappy localization like there was in Fates.

 

[Jamie]

Awakening was designed to be the last gane because Nintendo threatened to pull the plug. The series hadnt been selling well but Nintendo had underestimated the demand for the IP in the west.

Previous titles released in the west sold poorly because they were often difficult to get.

With Awakening potentially being the last game the director put everything he had always wanted to do in an FE into Awakening. It helped that it was a good game with great characters, but it also helped that Nintendo released it world wide and pressed enough copies for it to be available.

Had they just upgraded a previous game and released it the way they releasef Awakening, that game still would have sold. Nintendo clearly didnt realise how important and powerful the series could be. One world wide launch with availability helped more than anything else.

However Awakening was entry level (even i can do it without much effort) and this soured a lot of the fanbase. The level of strategy required in Awakening is a lot lower than any game that came before it. The systems in place are wonderful, the game is still deep and worthwhile but a lot of what made an FE game appealling to the existing fanbase was lost in Awakening and it didnt come back in Fates.

This is why i'm pretty happy that theyve not only remade a game the west never got, but the fact that they remade a game from the past at all says to me that they still know what they want to do with the franchise and keep the heart of it intact for those who are connected with the series the way most of us here are with Zelda.

But you're complaining about Fates even though Conquest is supposedly very difficult?

Also, Awakening was by far the best selling FE game in Japan since FE4. So that doesn't make much sense in terms of sales.

 

[Lozjam]

Awakening was designed to be the last gane because Nintendo threatened to pull the plug. The series hadnt been selling well but Nintendo had underestimated the demand for the IP in the west.

Previous titles released in the west sold poorly because they were often difficult to get.

With Awakening potentially being the last game the director put everything he had always wanted to do in an FE into Awakening. It helped that it was a good game with great characters, but it also helped that Nintendo released it world wide and pressed enough copies for it to be available.

Had they just upgraded a previous game and released it the way they releasef Awakening, that game still would have sold. Nintendo clearly didnt realise how important and powerful the series could be. One world wide launch with availability helped more than anything else.

However Awakening was entry level (even i can do it without much effort) and this soured a lot of the fanbase. The level of strategy required in Awakening is a lot lower than any game that came before it. The systems in place are wonderful, the game is still deep and worthwhile but a lot of what made an FE game appealling to the existing fanbase was lost in Awakening and it didnt come back in Fates.

This is why i'm pretty happy that theyve not only remade a game the west never got, but the fact that they remade a game from the past at all says to me that they still know what they want to do with the franchise and keep the heart of it intact for those who are connected with the series the way most of us here are with Zelda.

What are you talking about?

The story of FEF may be average. However, FE veterans absolutely love Fates for its gameplay, and it provides the deepest and most satisfying gameplay of the entire series.

 

[hwrdjacob]

Awakening was designed to be the last gane because Nintendo threatened to pull the plug. The series hadnt been selling well but Nintendo had underestimated the demand for the IP in the west.

Previous titles released in the west sold poorly because they were often difficult to get.

It's not just the west here

Supply for the (2 localized anyway) GBA games seems to have been reasonable enough for a GBA game at the time. Not once have I heard any stories of the game being hard to find until after Awakening came out and everyone started snatching them up based on spotpass characters (same story with Tellius but I'll get to Tellius in a second).

Tellius on the other hand is a different story; there's no sugar coating the fact FE9 and FE10 bombed especially in Japan. It got decent enough reviews in America- but reaction in Japan had them literally loathing Tellius. Tellius is, bar only FE5 which was an extremely limited SNES release in the second half of 2000- yes, 2000, the same year Majora's Mask was sending the N64 off- the pair of worst selling FE games in the series.

Really Japan didn't stop to reevaluate them until Smash, Fates, and finally TCG Cipher kind of shoved it in their faces and they said "wait it isn't as bad as we thought." People were decrying FE9 and 10 for being basically the same story as FE3 Book 1 and Book 2, and FE7/FE6, though criticism of the games in Japan have all but been silenced in the past year.

Though it should be noted that's only in the past year; the critical failure of FE10 is what pushed Nintendo to remake FE3 in two parts (Part 1 being FE11 and Part 2 being FE12), and when FE11 tanked in the US (Nintendo is partially to blame due to never giving FE12 a chance here when it was for a while very much praised as among the best in the franchise by SF before people needed something for fingers to point at and blame for Fates) they got desperate. In large part, it was Tellius that almost killed the franchise, not sheer ignorance.

Awakening has an amazingly beneficial side effect though; it's gotten many, many American players to go back and play the older games based on the DLC and Spotpass, and generated enough demand for a Gaiden remake that we're here talking. Awakening in 10 years might be looked back upon as the game that finally pushed Nintendo to localize 12, 4, 5, and 6 on VC or via Remakes due almost entirely to its very nature, so Awakening deserves some credit for this side effect of its nature in being dependent entirely on the prior games.

 

[Ventus]

I remember first getting into Gaiden after I played the map on Awakening that featured Alm. I think it was the one where you get DF scroll anyway. So yeah, the game defo helped to boost popularity even in an unconventional way. I never did buy the game officially, but what to expect of a Japanese Famicom title hahaha XD. So to see a remake of this beloved game, is to create a feeling that one cannot replicate very easily. Yes, I am into buying Echoes: Shadows of Valensha. Thank you for your time and I hope you have a wonderful day.

 

[Feverish]

Oh man I'm so excited for this one. I've only played Awakening, most of Revelations, all of Conquest, and the first few chapters of Birthright, so, uh, hopefully I won't be whipped for wishing there is support conversation in this game because support convos are a highlight of the FE games I played for me

 

[hwrdjacob]

Oh man I'm so excited for this one. I've only played Awakening, most of Revelations, all of Conquest, and the first few chapters of Birthright, so, uh, hopefully I won't be whipped for wishing there is support conversation in this game because support convos are a highlight of the FE games I played for me

Support convos were in the second remake, New Mystery of the Emblem, just not support LEVELS. So we're likely getting convos but not support levels, since support conversations have been in essentially every game since FE4 except for FE5 and 11.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

really wish you'd call the games by the actual subtitles,doubt everyone knows what numbers they are,especially non fans
its like if i called ocarina of time zelda 5

 

[hwrdjacob]

really wish you'd call the games by the actual subtitles,doubt everyone knows what numbers they are,especially non fans
its like if i called ocarina of time zelda 5

The actual subtitles are basically full sentences so it's habit. I know I've written essays talking about Hyrule Historia being wrong but writing out "Genealogy of the Holy War: Generation 2" every couple sentences gets a bit grating lol

Let me just list all the subtitles by number:

FE1: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light (1990, NES, Japan only)

FE2: Gaiden (1992, NES, Japan only)

FE3: Mystery of the Emblem (1994, SNES, Japan only) (FE3B1 refers to Book 1, Book 1 is a remake of FE1. FE3B2 refers to Book 2, which was NOT a remake and instead a new installment taking place after Gaiden)

FE4: Genealogy of the Holy War (1996, SNES, Japan only) (FE4G1 refers to the first Generation, 4G2 refers to the second generation with the child characters)

FE5: Thracia 776 (2000, SNES, Japan only)

FE6: The Binding Blade (2002, GBA, Japan only)

FE7: The Blazing Blade (Released as just Fire Emblem in the US without the subtitle) (2003, GBA)

FE8: The Sacred Stones (2004, GBA)

FE9: Path of Radiance (2005, GameCube)

FE10: Radiant Dawn (2007, Wii)

FE11: Shadow Dragon (2009, DS) (a remake of FE3B1, so it's a remake of a remake of FE1)

FE12: New Mystery of the Emblem: Heroes of Light and Shadow (2010, DS, Japan only) (a remake of FE3B2)

FE13: Awakening (2013, 3DS)

FE14: Fates (2016, 3DS)

If everyone really insists I'll start trying to write the full sentences or abbreviate them (though that's basically the same problem as using ALttP or SS, in that people will still be confused)

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

difference w/ abbreviating the zelda games is that the series is much more popular,so if you used "alttp" or "oot" when talking about zelda,it's more likely someone will know what you're talking about as opposed to calling thracia 776 "FE5" [though at the least,calling blazing sword FE7 makes sense since there wasn't an official subtitle for that]
could be worse though,it could be the dragon quest series where each subtitle practically IS a statement,but then again that series is openly numbered where fire emblem isnt

either way,appreciate you laying that out

 

[hwrdjacob]

difference w/ abbreviating the zelda games is that the series is much more popular,so if you used "alttp" or "oot" when talking about zelda,it's more likely someone will know what you're talking about as opposed to calling thracia 776 "FE5" [though at the least,calling blazing sword FE7 makes sense since there wasn't an official subtitle for that]
could be worse though,it could be the dragon quest series where each subtitle practically IS a statement,but then again that series is openly numbered where fire emblem isnt

either way,appreciate you laying that out

On that note, it's starting to look more and more like Nintendo is officially calling FE7 "The Blazing Blade"- not only does it distinguish "Fire Emblem" from the series, but it also forms a theme naming with The Binding Blade, its chronological sequel. The name "The Blazing Blade" was used in promotional materials for Heroes, so it might not stick. But if it's used in game, it more likely than not is 100% going to stick.

 

[selicyc]

Everyone seems to forget that the Satellaview Fire Emblem games also count according to the devs, so actually Fates is the 15th game.

I wonder how faithful this remake is really going to be because Gaiden is weird. The dungeon crawling isn't the only thing unusual about it -- magic isn't cast from tomes, it's cast from HP. You always took damage, even if it was just one point. Also, the cast is tiny (about 36 people) and is broken up into two teams 18 units that only join together for the final chapter of the game. If supports return, they will be limited. You can only carry one weapon at a time, but in exchange weapons had no durability.

Makes me nervous about those who got their start with Awakening and Fates coming into this expecting the refined gameplay of those games. It might be too jarring. Personally, I'm hoping with a title like Echoes, IntSys going to revisit older titles too like Genealogy of the Holy Wars and Thracia 776 remakes since Jugdral is my favourite continent in the series.

 

[hwrdjacob]

Everyone seems to forget that the Satellaview Fire Emblem games also count according to the devs, so actually Fates is the 15th game.

Not anymore. They counted it shortly before Awakening but now they don't count it anymore. HOWEVER, they do count Fates twice; they count Birthright and Conquest as FE14, and consider Revelation to be FE15, from what I understand. Also, TMS has the official designation of #FE, so they do count it. Not sure what they count Heroes as though, and smash is canon to the games' multiverse but doesn't have its own designation.

It might have to do with the BSFE characters being lumped in with the FE12 characters in Awakening (specifically, Malice) as well as BSFE itself being remade as bonus maps for 12; ergo, Intsys probably considers BSFE and FE12 the same thing for now, hence the change of mind with the development number system.

I wonder how faithful this remake is really going to be because Gaiden is weird. The dungeon crawling isn't the only thing unusual about it -- magic isn't cast from tomes, it's cast from HP. You always took damage, even if it was just one point. Also, the cast is tiny (about 36 people) and is broken up into two teams 18 units that only join together for the final chapter of the game. If supports return, they will be limited. You can only carry one weapon at a time, but in exchange weapons had no durability.

Makes me nervous about those who got their start with Awakening and Fates coming into this expecting the refined gameplay of those games. It might be too jarring. Personally, I'm hoping with a title like Echoes, IntSys going to revisit older titles too like Genealogy of the Holy Wars and Thracia 776 remakes since Jugdral is my favourite continent in the series.

Echoes already sold out their pre order allotment three times on Amazon and Fire Emblem is starting to run on name alone (Heroes was trending on twitter and YouTube), so I don't think it will sell poorly at all. The gameplay itself is going to have an updated UI interface and the mechanics will likely be similarly made more intuitive, but we know pretty much for a fact the Item system (rings and shields) is retained, but most likely the trading system in particular will be streamlined. Weapons may end up working like they do in Fates (infinite durability) and have the same limited selection as Gaiden to balance things out.

Shrine promotion was also confirmed.

Echoes will likely sell well as as I may have mentioned in this thread FE12 will almost certainly be localized on the virtual console. Further remakes may follow suit after that, but Nintendo's second priority after FE12 would be localizing/remaking FE6 (and 7 if a remake) due to FE7, Smash Bros., Awakening, and Heroes. Jugdral will be the next and final two they localize or remake, most likely.

The worst case scenario here is FE Echoes has strong initial sales, then becomes a more average game. I don't see it tanking at all, the worst case scenario would probably be average 3DS JRPG sales (because literally the entire hardcore fanbase is already sold on it due to concept alone). Echoes seems to be taking special care to put foreshadowing into the game of Awakening's Valm arc as well, as we see Rigel's crest is an ancient version of the Valmese Empire's coat of arms.

I can also say safely that supports WILL be in the game, as the last FE remake added supports into the game retroactively as well (FE12), but they were in the style of FE10. Marriage and especially children I don't see being put into the game, since everyone in Gaiden is basically already spoken for.

 

[A Link In Time]

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