Does The Zelda Recipe Need An Overhaul?

[Mases]

The guys over at Destructoid have recently put out a brand new article about the classic Zelda Recipe. Throughout the short article, the author touches on a handful of things that he believes helped keep the Zelda formula fresh, without making any drastic changes. He in particular mentions things from Twilight Princess, such as the Snowpeak Ruins. He talk about how the dungeon was quite unique in comparison to previous dungeons as It wasn’t just some random location tossed somewhere in Hyrule that had very little reasoning for being there. It was actually a mansion with actual characters living their lives there, and its puzzles, locations, and even its boss battle were extremely unique. The author also mentions the Goron Mines from Twilight Princess as a dungeon that doesn’t necessarily reinvent the series, but does give it a fresh feel.

The author goes on to somewhat rant about the poor use of Rupees in the Zelda franchise over the years. Rupees can be found all over the place, in unmarked jars, underneath bushes, after defeating enemies, and in unlocked treasure chests found in random caves and dungeons all throughout Hyrule. Yet… there is often very little use for rupees. Sure you can buy potions, bombs, arrows, or those one off items… but for the most part, you can get by with very little use of rupees. The author believes that the Magic Armor from Twilight Princess helped push the use of rupees forward, but to me I still think they need more drastic changes to the rupee system.

Do you guys think that the Zelda Recipe is in need of any drastic changes? Perhaps you agree with the author of this article, and feel that while the formula has been consistent throughout, the smaller changes seen in Twilight Princess is enough to keep things fresh. Head on over to our Zelda Forums to discuss the classic Zelda Recipe and if you think it needs any major changes.

[Megamannt125]

Rupees were very useful back in the NES game, because you could use them to buy many very useful items such as the candle, a bigger shield, the blue ring, and back then potions were worth the effort to find rupees and try to buy. However, in recent games, I never go to the shops to buy anything, for arrows and bombs I can just go cut up grass and the items come out, while it is useful when your in a dungeon or something and your out of stuff, it completely destroys the purpose of the shops, I find myself getting max rupees in almost every Zelda game because I never have to use them, and why hearts are even in shops i'll never know, since they are dropped by enemies 99% of the time. The rupee thing is the only thing that really bothers me, that and I wish Zelda games would have more in-depth side quests like in Majora's Mask, rather than just collecting heart pieces, skulltulas, or whatever, since it's been done in so many Zelda games. However, also Majora's Mask, clearly prooved how useless the rupee system really can be. I just hope they decide to do something with the upcoming Zelda wii.

[MrMosley]

I think the series has changed quite a bit already. Sure, you still have the same dungeons and bosses, collecting weapons and some kind of special item to advance in each... But the use of rupees, as mentioned, has grown less and less popular. Also, the games have kinda been separated into two separate categories as far as advancement goes. For example, ALttP, OoT, WW, and TP all had a kind of preliminary three items you had to obtain before moving onto the "second portion" of the game (Spiritual Stones in OoT, then Medallions in the Adult Portion, for example). Other games, such as LoZ, AoL, LA, and OoX had style comparable to only the second portion of OoT, where you went straight and collected the main items without any preliminary requirements.

In my opinion, I would like to see the rupee system become more widely used again. I think of LoZ a lot when it comes to use of rupees. Some of the items you absolutely needed to complete a dungeon or make the game much less difficult had to be purchased with rupees. In that game, you also had the universal use of keys, where any key could be used in any dungeon. This, at least for me, made the game a lot more complicated, as you might use more keys in one dungeon than you need to. I always find myself going to buy a key from one of the shops because I come up short and get stuck in a place where I have no more keys. This can be a plus in a lot of ways by increasing the difficulty and confusion of the dungeons by making certain rooms that aren't necessary to use keys for, then having shops where you could buy extra ones. Other things, like paying mass amounts of rupees for arrow and bomb upgrades in ALttP could also be used to make rupees more valuable.

The problem is, Zelda doesn't rely on items that are found outside of the dungeons anymore to progress. Pretty much everything that you need is found in a dungeon and doesn't require any purchasing. Bombs, arrows, and magic potions have lately been found in about any grass or bush, simply cutting it down to access them. Other items are often found in boxes within the dungeons or elsewhere, and are usually items that you don't really need to use much, so when the time comes that you need it in a dungeon, you have plenty of them (Bombchu's in OoT come to mind). The Zelda series simply makes it too easy by giving the player plenty of access to items that can be purchased, but are easily obtained by other means and usually are obtained through normal progression.

I'm not sure how the formula could be changed very drastically from going to dungeons, gathering a specific weapon and special item, then moving onto the next, other than having it tie in with the use of rupees. Some items could be hidden in wild locations (another problem that Zelda seems to have, which is a lack of explorable areas), that you would need in a dungeon or area to progress. This would make the game more difficult, IMO, add playtime, and give a wider variety of ways to go about completing the game, rather than a step one, step two-type of game.

[Josh]

I think it's more.....what Mosley was getting at. The Zelda Series HAS changed, but as always it seems it's not for the better.

Compare really any of the Zelda console games from the 90s to Twilight Princess, or something like Link's Awakening to Spirit Tracks. Things HAVE changed, the way is played HAS changed, most everything HAS changed.

What I find interesting though, is I'm not seeing the same nit-picking ideas that I saw a few months ago. Maybe I was swept up in the complaining about Spirit Tracks, maybe I was just oblivious to some of them, I don't know. But he brings something new and I kinda like it.

The dungeons.....I think most all of the dungeons in Twilight Princess had something a little different about them. They weren't really the average dungeon from say, Ocarina of Time. They DID add some tiny new things to them, and I was okay with it. Then there are the more noticeable things, Goron Mines for example, seems to be a dungeon that most people loved, and it's their favorite one in the game, for how it was designed, the 3 different pieces of boss key, so on and so forth.

But can you really keep doing that? I don't think so. Those dungeons were good I'll admit it, but unless you want to be the one coming up with a thousand ideas for Nintendo for every single game about every single dungeon about what they could possibly do in these dungeons, it's not going to happen. I just highly, highly doubt it ever will. And if you really want something to complain about, complain about the original LoZ. Where's the imagination in those dungeons?

As for the rupees, I think this issue was only brought up because of Twilight Princess, and if Spirit Tracks and Zelda Wii, aren't too big of a problem, it'll go away. And I think because of Twilight Princess, it was a heck of a lot more noticeable. What with, all the happy screens every time you restart the game, or not being able to pick them up because you didn't have enough room left, people noticed more and got annoyed by it more than in the past. I've played through Ocarina of Time plenty of times and every time I see almost the same problems I do in Twilight Princess, I always end up with sooo many rupees, but this time they actually disappear when my wallet is full rather than go back into a chest, so it's less noticeable.

Look at Wind Waker. Rupees were needed EVERYWHERE. Tingle, paying for things from the mailbox, auctions, there was rarely a time that you didn't have to pay for something in that game. What happened there?

It's like a reverse effect. People complained about Tingle because they never had enough rupees. If you have a lot of money, and I mean a lot of money, will you care a whole lot of someone steals 3,000 of your rupees? No. Because it's barely a dent. The problem was, or at least how I see it, you didn't have enough rupees. So instead of people complaining about having too many rupees, they complained about Tingle and not having enough rupees, and having to scour the entire sea to find some and continue on through the game. Where is the middle ground for how many rupees and the uses for them? I still honestly can't see it, and I don't think there will ever be one, because no one will be satisfied with it in the end.

[Midna666]

I don't think that the Zelda series really needs a big overhaul.
What I think needs to happen is the series needs to move away from Ocarina of Time.
The series has really been traped in a certain mindstate since OOT that it has yet to break out of.

[lonely_moon]

As evidenced by how many fans the series has, obviously the Zelda "recipe" still works and is very enjoyable, but I think it could be better still.

Josh was right. Wind Waker was the only game I played that really required Rupees. In all the other games, they're pretty much just for people too lazy to go out and cut grass for a while. There should actually be a need for Rupees.

In fact, like MrMosley said, a lot of items in the game are handed to you on a silver platter. You will almost never have to venture outside the dungeon to get something you need. Some things would make sense being in there (e.g. Deku Seeds and Nuts in an earth dungeon), but others don't. It makes the game too easy for some. But then, what happens if you're out of bombs and you're miles into the dungeon? It would take a long time to get out (although I suppose that would finally give something like Farore's Wind a use. Let's face it; did you actually use that thing?).

But the main problem is that it's too blatantly formulaic. Every one of us knows the whole "do a couple of dungeons, get the Master Sword, do a few more dungeons" thing the Zelda series has had going. The Wind Waker started to get on the right track of changing this; there were actually fairly few big dungeons, with a lot more mini-dungeons and a bigger focus on side-quests. It didn't follow the typical Zelda format. The path that the game follows needs to be more tied to a story that doesn't just give an excuse to go out and complete these dungeons. Ocarina of Time did this; sure, the Spiritual Stones could be explained away (the three colours represent the three goddesses, who may be trying to "test" Link before he is worthy to wield the Master Sword. But just my theory), but what about the Medallions? They don't seem to do anything by themselves. They are, as I said, more of an excuse to traipse through dungeons.