Common Theory Breakdown: One or More Ganons?

[ComposerBrother]

.....Okay, I have started taking an interest in making a timeline and have noticed that some people did not take ganondorf's multiple deaths into account (the ones with the master sword being used to kill him so he cannot be revived). I have only finished Ocarina of Time, and its split timeline's games, so I really only know the storyline's for them.
.....Could you guys post the games that Ganondorf (and ganon) has appeared in so we could construct some solid facts. Just so you know, if certain games do have the master sword responsible for ganondorf/ganon's death , that means they cannot be any sequel/prequels with each other if you don't know what I'm getting at.

[Satsy]

Ganon (in various forms) was in LoZ, aLttP, OoT, OoX (as an optional boss between the two games IIRC), WW, TP, and I cannot speak of the FS/FSA games since I haven't played them. The Master Sword was in LttP, OoT, WW, TP, and as I understand it was an optional weapon in the OoX games.

I could be wrong in certain places, and I swear I'm forgetting a game or two.

[Zenox]

Ganon was in a sense in AoL, although not alive. If the player died, Ganon would have returned. I'm not sure if this counts for anything or not, but Satsy didn't mention that and I thought it was worth noting.

It also should be worth noting that in the linked ending of OoX that Satsy mentioned, Ganon was reincarnated and brainless due to the revival not going 100% correctly.

Also, Ganon wasn't in FS, but was in FSA as the final boss of the game.

[STEVEN]

He appeared in OoA He was reincarnated in his beast forum. So hope that helps.

[Midna666]

Ganon and his deaths(defeats).
LOZ: he is killed with the silver arrows.
TAOL: He only appears on the gameover screen.
ALTTP: He is killed by using both the Master Sword, and the Silver arrows.
OOT: He is sealed.
Oracles: He is bought back as a mindless monster. Is killed.
Wind Waker: Is killed.
FSA: Is sealed in the Four Sword.
Twilight Princess: Is killed.

Hope that helps.

[Tyeforce]

Ganondorf can die many times because there is more than one Ganondorf. One Ganondorf dies, another is born generations later... Just like Link, and many other recurring characters.

[DuckNoises]

Ganondorf can die many times because there is more than one Ganondorf. One Ganondorf dies, another is born generations later... Just like Link, and many other recurring characters.

Don't state this as an absolute quite yet. This hasn't really been confirmed (at least, not yet).
The only instance where I'd say Ganondorf's death is truly debatable is at the end of TP. If you place FSA sometime after TP but before ALttP, and don't subscribe to the multiple Ganondorf theory, the only explanation of Ganondorf's presence in FSA and/or ALttP that I can think of is that he must have not died at the end of of TP.

Spoiler Warning! Please do not read the next few paragraphs or watch the linked video if you have not finished TP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmxxIZapJXc
In the above video, Ganondorf was stabbed in the stomach with the Master Sword, but that still has not killed him. He mentions, "Do not think this will end here," which seems to imply that either he will return, or that he will be avenged. He is still breathing well after being stabbed, which leads me to believe he is still alive. Even after Zant breaks his neck, he is still standing. He never falls to the ground, and if you look closely -- as the camera zooms out -- you can almost see his chest moving a little, which leads me to believe he is still alive in some regard.
To be fair, though, at the end of OoT, Ganon was stabbed in the head repeatedly before being sealed away, yet he was still alive. However, he lives on well after the Great Flood. I believe he no longer possessed the Triforce of Power after being sealed, hence why he cannot turn into Ganon in TWW. I think this absence of the Triforce of Power is because the Hero of Time took the ToC back with him as a child, which "broke" the Triforce in the AT, hence why Link has to gather the pieces in TWW. The Triforce fragments are distributed now on the CT, as is illustrated in Ganondorf's attempted execution.
Now, I do note that the Triforce of Power disappears from his hand. I admit that that is very strong evidence against this argument. However, he appears to lose the ToP every time he is defeated, whether or not he is sealed or killed. At the end of TP, it is possible that the Triforce restored itself and was returned to the Sacred Realm, because that is where it is located before and during ALttP. This may mean that the disappearance of the Triforce is merely associated with Ganondorf's defeat, and not necessarily his death.

[MrMosley]

The only times he actually "died" that we have confirmation of is in LoZ and WW. Other than that, nothing has been confirmed as a "death" for Ganondorf... Not even TP, though many people will say it was a death, I have my doubts.

[athenian200]

Well, in some of the games, Ganon didn't die. He obviously didn't die in the games he wasn't present in, so that eliminates AoL, LADX, MM, MC, PH, and ST.

In OoT, we know that he lives because it's a prequel. I've heard SS will be a prequel to OoT, so if he's defeated in that game, we know he didn't die.

So that leaves... LoZ, ALttP, OoX, WW, and TP to worry about. 5 possible deaths. We can confirm that he dies in LoZ, because they tried to revive him in AoL, so that probably comes at the end of a timeline. I've heard that ALttP was originally supposed to be a prequel to the first two Zelda games (though I can't confirm it), so we know that death probably wasn't real either.

Since Ganon doesn't appear on the Adult timeline again after WW, it can be assumed that he died on that timeline in WW. However, that leaves two deaths unresolved... the death of Ganon on the Child Timeline in TP. That is the only death that's really controversial. There's also the death of Ganon in OoX, but a lot of people downplay that one because he had to be revived meaning he was already dead, came back as mindless, and there's a possibility it's not considered canonical.

[MrMosley]

There's also the death of Ganon in OoX, but a lot of people downplay that one because he had to be revived meaning he was already dead, came back as mindless, and there's a possibility it's not considered canonical.

Ganon being in OoX is completely canonical. His revival was the reason for the entire game(s). But you're probably referring to it counting as a canonical "death". The way I look at it, he wasn't fully revived, so his defeat then would send him right back to where he was before his partial revival, which would have been death. His presence was not serious enough in the first place to really even argue the point of if he died or not, nor is it relevant to the timeline at all since there is no confirmed games to come after OoX.

[Pinecove]

Not even TP, though many people will say it was a death, I have my doubts.

Mosley we've debated this before and EVERY time I contradict you, you've run out of the conversation.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaveric_spasm

Instant rigor mortis, also known as a Cadaveric spasm can occur INSTANTLY after death if the person in question has been exerting him/herself heavily before death. This explains the standing up.

[DuckNoises]

I don't think Nintendo would use a rare medical phenomenon as a plot device to understanding the ending of a game. Although the hypothesized causes of it seem fitting to the scenario in the game, the article says that primary causes are still unknown.
Honestly, the probability of Nintendo even knowing about these occurrences, let alone consciously deciding that its inclusion be so necessary to completely understand the condition of a major character, is slim at best, in my opinion.
I mean, Nintendo would never include something that esoteric, right?

[Locke]

The only real inconsistency is between LttP and LoZ. Ganon would have to be resurrected between them, or if you place them on opposite timelines then you'd only have FSA to set up for one of them, and the other still needs an unexplained resurrection.

@TP death debate: I don't even care if he's standing or not. (He could have been floating for all it matters.) There's no way Link, Zelda, Midna, and the Light Spirits all just left him there without being sure he was dead. Zelda needs to be sure her country will be safe; if Midna cared enough about the safety of Hyrule to destroy the mirror, she probably cared enough to be certain of Ganondorf's death; The Light Spirits are guardians of Hyrule and suffered a direct assault by Ganondorf, so his death would be very important to them.
If Nintendo specifically tells us that he survived, then I'll sigh at their fail storytelling and accept it, but until then, I'm going to assume that their stories make sense.

Also, why would being killed by the MS be any different than in WW? They probably just didn't have him turn to stone because it didn't fit the art style or something, but the concept should be the same.

[Tyeforce]

Don't state this as an absolute quite yet. This hasn't really been confirmed (at least, not yet).
The only instance where I'd say Ganondorf's death is truly debatable is at the end of TP. If you place FSA sometime after TP but before ALttP, and don't subscribe to the multiple Ganondorf theory, the only explanation of Ganondorf's presence in FSA and/or ALttP that I can think of is that he must have not died at the end of of TP.

Spoiler Warning! Please do not read the next few paragraphs or watch the linked video if you have not finished TP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmxxIZapJXc
In the above video, Ganondorf was stabbed in the stomach with the Master Sword, but that still has not killed him. He mentions, "Do not think this will end here," which seems to imply that either he will return, or that he will be avenged. He is still breathing well after being stabbed, which leads me to believe he is still alive. Even after Zant breaks his neck, he is still standing. He never falls to the ground, and if you look closely -- as the camera zooms out -- you can almost see his chest moving a little, which leads me to believe he is still alive in some regard.
To be fair, though, at the end of OoT, Ganon was stabbed in the head repeatedly before being sealed away, yet he was still alive. However, he lives on well after the Great Flood. I believe he no longer possessed the Triforce of Power after being sealed, hence why he cannot turn into Ganon in TWW. I think this absence of the Triforce of Power is because the Hero of Time took the ToC back with him as a child, which "broke" the Triforce in the AT, hence why Link has to gather the pieces in TWW. The Triforce fragments are distributed now on the CT, as is illustrated in Ganondorf's attempted execution.
Now, I do note that the Triforce of Power disappears from his hand. I admit that that is very strong evidence against this argument. However, he appears to lose the ToP every time he is defeated, whether or not he is sealed or killed. At the end of TP, it is possible that the Triforce restored itself and was returned to the Sacred Realm, because that is where it is located before and during ALttP. This may mean that the disappearance of the Triforce is merely associated with Ganondorf's defeat, and not necessarily his death.

It may not have been 100% confirmed in game or by the developers, but it's very, very, very heavily implied. Let's look at the games that feature Ganon(dorf):

TLoZ: Ganon's debut, he steals the Triforce of Power. Link kills him and reclaims the Triforce. TAoL makes it clear that Ganon is completely killed, not just merely defeated.

ALttP: A thief named Ganondorf steals the whole Triforce and becomes the Demon King Ganon. Link defeats him and obtains the whole Triforce. Ganon is likely not killed, because AST shows potential of Ganon being revived, as does ALttP's official timeline placement before TLoZ.

OoT: Ganondorf, king of the Gerudos, attempts to steal the Triforce, but the Triforce splits upon him touching it and he is only granted the Triforce of Power. He is defeated by Link, and the seven Sages seal him away. Though he is sealed, he still possesses the Triforce of Power.

OoS/OoA: Ganon is revived by Twinrova, but because the revival went wrong, Ganon is a mindless beast. He is short lived, because he is killed by Link yet again. Ganon did not possess the Triforce at all.

TWW: Ganondorf has escaped his seal from OoT, and still possesses the Triforce of Power. He reunites the three pieces of the Triforce and attempts to use its power to grant his wish, but King Hyrule beats him to it and he is defeated by Link. He is left far below the Great Sea turned to stone and Triforceless with the Master Sword stuck in his head, washed away with old Hyrule.

FSA: A Gerudo man named Ganondorf breaks his people's taboo and steals the trident and Dark Mirror from the Pyramid. By stealing the trident, he becomes the Demon King Ganon. He is defeated by Link and sealed in the Four Sword. He never had any part of the Triforce, nor was the Triforce even seen or mentioned.

TP: After Ganondorf tries to steal the Triforce in OoT but fails, he is captured and sentenced to death. However, before his execution, he is granted the Triforce of Power, most likely through divine intervention. This is because he was supposed to obtain the Triforce of Power, but that event never happened, so the gods or even time itself corrected what was destined to happen. With his newfound power, Ganondorf kills the Sage of Water, and the remaining Sages act quickly and seal him in the Twilight Realm. Many years later, with the help of Zant, he escapes the Twilight Realm and takes over Hyrule, but he is killed by Link. While some people debate it, it's quite clear that he's killed here, as the Triforce of Power leaves him, and the whole scene really drives home the idea that he is dead.

With all that in mind, how could there possibly be only one Ganondorf? There has to be at least two. In my timeline, there are three:

1. FSA
2. OoT/TWW, OoT/TP
3. ALttP/TLoZ/OoS/OoA

Anyway, I think Nintendo has made it clear enough that there is more than one Ganondorf. And while they may not have came out and said it directly, they also haven't directly said that there is more than one Tingle, Malon, Dampé, etc., but we all assume that there is anyway, don't we? Why don't we assume the same for Ganondorf?

[DuckNoises]

TP: After Ganondorf tries to steal the Triforce in OoT but fails, he is captured and sentenced to death. However, before his execution, he is granted the Triforce of Power, most likely through divine intervention. This is because he was supposed to obtain the Triforce of Power, but that event never happened, so the gods or even time itself corrected what was destined to happen. With his newfound power, Ganondorf kills the Sage of Water, and the remaining Sages act quickly and seal him in the Twilight Realm. Many years later, with the help of Zant, he escapes the Twilight Realm and takes over Hyrule, but he is killed by Link. While some people debate it, it's quite clear that he's killed here, as the Triforce of Power leaves him, and the whole scene really drives home the idea that he is dead.

The only argument I see is that he loses the ToP. How can you be so sure that that is irrefutable evidence that he is dead?

Anyway, I think Nintendo has made it clear enough that there is more than one Ganondorf. And while they may not have came out and said it directly, they also haven't directly said that there is more than one Tingle, Malon, Dampé, etc., but we all assume that there is anyway, don't we? Why don't we assume the same for Ganondorf?

Firstly, it is because that he has been proven to live for hundreds of years, and has survived countless brutal defeats, in instances confirmed by the plot. In OoT, he is stabbed repeatedly in the head with the Master Sword, yet he does not die. Surviving such displays shows that Nintendo is making an effort to demonstrate that it is the same Ganondorf by not killing off the character. Moreover, if there were multiple Ganondorfs, why does Ganondorf always get resurrected if they could just wait for a new one to appear, and explain it in the back story instead? Why bother with the effort? I suspect this is because another one can't be born without being fathered by a prior Ganondorf, whom you are claiming died. If Ganondorf died, then there can't be any more Ganondorfs;

The primary reason for this is that the original Ganondorf is the only male Gerudo, and is part of the royal Gerudo lineage. If Ganondorf dies at one point, there can not be another Ganondorf after that instance in that section of the timeline, because there is no one to father a successor. Every Ganondorf has been of pure Gerudo descent, and has always been the leading figure of a band of thieves, most notably, either the king of thieves, or king of the Gerudo.

If it were a new Ganondorf in ALttP, how does he find the Triforce so much quicker than all the others searching for the Golden Power? He's either very lucky, or he knew where it was kept from prior experience. Why does he always establish a vendetta against Link and Zelda from the very beginning (regardless if that game features the Triforce or not) if he had no prior experience with them?

In addition, if there were more than one Ganondorf, it wouldn't be quite as effective at establishing an overarching, multi-game narrative for the franchise.