My Timeline Theory

[Tingle]

Ok, Ive been thinking about this a lot and I know its a bit off but thats why Im posting it, to get some constructive critiscm.

Theory 1
------CT------ MM - TP - (LCT) - FSA - ALttP (GBA) - LA-/-OOX - LoZ - AoL
MC - FS - OOT
------AT------ (FPTRR) - WW - (TBFDS) - PH - ST

- next game
-/- Interchangable
(---) Spin Off so may not be canon

Direct Sequels

OOT - MM
TP - (LCT)
ALttP - LA
LOz - AoL
WW - PH
FSA - ALttP (GBA)

Any questions or critiscms will be welcomed.

[Erimgard]

A few questions:
Why are FS and FSA not near each other on the timeline?

How does Triforce progress from TP-FSA-aLttP?

Follow up to that, what is your Seal/Imprisoning war?

Why OoX-LoZ-AoL instead of LoZ-AoL-OoX?

[sign of table]

Mind giving any reasons to your timeline? And which ones are direct and indirect sequels?

[Tingle]

Yeah I was going to put up a full explanation but Im too tired

"Why are FS and FSA not near each other on the timeline?"
Because I dont believe that FSA is a direct sequel to FS as no length of time is given between when Vaati is sealed for the second time (FS) and escaping from the seal.

How does Triforce progress from TP-FSA-aLttP?
I dont pay much attention to the triforce as it goes against the split itself but at the end the Triforce fades from Ganondorfs hand leading me to believe he lost it and of couse Zelda has wisdom and Link courage, the triforces are passed on to the new Zelda (as always), Link (as with direct descendents) and Ganon either gets it when he grabs the Trident, he doesnt get it or its passed on. Then the ToP stays with Ganon when hes sealed and the other two are passed on again. They all eventually end up together at the end of ALttP. Sorry the triforce is one of the last things I look to for evidence.

Follow up to that, what is your Seal/Imprisoning war?
My Seal/Imprisoning War is FSA with my reasons being those of others who posted in the Seal/Imprisoning War thread further down the page.

Why OoX-LoZ-AoL instead of LoZ-AoL-OoX?
This is one of those rare occasions I use the Triforce as at the end of ALttP the Triforce is whole as it is at the beggining of OOX but it is completely split in LoZ (ToP is with Ganon, ToW is split into 8, ToC does not feature)

[MrMosley]

Ok, Ive been thinking about this a lot and I know its a bit off but thats why Im posting it, to get some constructive critiscm.

Theory 1
------CT------ MM - TP - (LCT) - FSA - ALttP (GBA) - LA-/-OOX - LoZ - AoL
MC - FS - OOT
------AT------ (FPTRR) - WW - (TBFDS) - PH - ST

Its a good thing you put CT and AT there, or else A LOT of theorists would have been confused. The CT usually goes on the bottom of split timelines. Might I suggest checking out my thread here:

http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4593

For the next time you decide to post a timeline. The method described in there is the most common and easiest form of timeline to use with keyboard text.

About your timeline, it looks pretty much like some other common timelines I have seen. You really don't have to include games like Link's Crossbow Training and Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland in there either. But you should just construct it better so that its easier to see the direct sequels and such. But its a rather common looking timeline. Nothing different. I'm pretty much in aggreance, other than a few things I'm still questionable about on my own timeline.

[Skull_Kid]

[QUOTE=Erimgard;60262]A few questions:
Why are FS and FSA not near each other on the timeline?

How does Triforce progress from TP-FSA-aLttP?
QUOTE]


In fact, FS works more like a direct sequel to MC than a direct prequel to FSA.
And the TP-FSA-ALttP is pretty much correct, imo, there is solid evidence that it is logic, including comparing the MS location through OoT up to ALttP.

[Tingle]

Ok so Ive been through Dark Link's timeline construction and have changed it accordingly

------AT------ (FPTRR) -- WW/PH -- ST
MC -- FS -- OOT
------CT------ /MM -- TP/(LCT) -- FSA -- ALttP (GBA)/LA -/- OOX -- LoZ/AoL

- next game
-/- Interchangable and may be generational
(---) Spin Off so may not be canon
-- Generational sequel
/ Direct sequel

Putting the Spin Offs in is just a habit of mine but i dont think its necessary.

With three new zelda titles (ST, Wii, CCTBToL) all coming out in the foreseeable future my timeline could heavily alter and at that point ill change it.

[Erimgard]

Ye
Because I dont believe that FSA is a direct sequel to FS as no length of time is given between when Vaati is sealed for the second time (FS) and escaping from the seal.

To both this, and to Skull Kid's reply (in stating that FS works better as a direct sequel to MC) I believe FSA speaks strongly in the opposite direction:



The hero used his sword to
bind Vaati in a remote area
of Hyrule. The people
christened the blade the Four
Sword and built a shrine
around it. There it remained
undisturbed for many years.
Ages flowed by...
The wind sorcerer Vaati
broke free of his prison
and kidnapped Zelda, the
princess of Hyrule.
Princess Zelda's childhood
friend Link used the power
of the Four Sword to defeat
Vaati and seal him away
once again.

The first time the Four Sword was used, it was used by "The hero". Then ages flowed by until it was used again. This time, it's specified that it was used by Zelda's (clearly indicative of THIS current Zelda, as it doesn't say a past Zelda) friend sealed him the second time.

It does not say "the hero" sealed him again. "The hero" and "Link/childhood friend" are separate people in this story. The hero existed "ages" ago, and Link is the current Zelda's (FSA's Zelda's) childhood friend. Thus, FS/FSA Link and Zelda are the same, but "the Hero" is either a legendary retelling of the story of MC, or an event in between MC and FS.



I dont pay much attention to the triforce as it goes against the split itself
What do you mean?



but at the end the Triforce fades from Ganondorfs hand leading me to believe he lost it and of couse Zelda has wisdom and Link courage, the triforces are passed on to the new Zelda (as always), Link (as with direct descendents) and Ganon either gets it when he grabs the Trident, he doesnt get it or its passed on. Then the ToP stays with Ganon when hes sealed and the other two are passed on again. They all eventually end up together at the end of ALttP. Sorry the triforce is one of the last things I look to for evidence.
They specifically end up in the Sacred Realm. And not only that, at the time of the Seal War, all versions of the tale are clear in stating that nobody ever successfully found the Sacred Realm and returned from it alive until the Seal War. How do you explain this?



My Seal/Imprisoning War is FSA with my reasons being those of others who posted in the Seal/Imprisoning War thread further down the page.
FSA does not feature the Sacred Realm being Sealed away. How can it be the Seal War? Again, take into account, it has to be the first time anyone has been known to have entered the Sacred Realm.



This is one of those rare occasions I use the Triforce as at the end of ALttP the Triforce is whole as it is at the beggining of OOX but it is completely split in LoZ (ToP is with Ganon, ToW is split into 8, ToC does not feature)
But in the LoZ/AoL backstory (which would have to be right after aLttP based on your timeline) the Triforce is whole and in the possession of a King.

Also the Triforce at the end of AoL matches perfectly with the Triforce at the start of OoX.

[sign of table]

@Erimgard. I have a question about something. If Zelda and Link had the full Triforce together then left it in the SR would it work? This quote in LttP struck me as odd: "But, the previous residents sure left a mischievous thing behind. The "Golden Power"...

the "Triforce"..." I'd think if he were referring to the Goddesses it would be a little less ambiguous (spelling?). Now please don't take me seriously on this as even if it did work I highly doubt I'd ever believe in it, but what if the previous residents were Link and Zelda and they left the Triforce? I'm not really being serious with that, I'm just wondering if that would actually work.

Oh and I have a question. How does the Triforce get into the SR for LttP in your timeline? I remember previously (like 8 months ago...) you believed that the Triforce at the end of OoX turning into birds meant nothing.

So how did the Triforce get into the SR in your timeline?

@Your point about FS. Yeah it's pretty clear what they were intending with that quote.

As I've said in the past, the writers can't be so stupid so as to refer to Link and Zelda as childhood friends, and have a Link and Zelda that were childhood friends be COMPLETELY different without anything hinting or implying such a thing.

[Erimgard]

@Erimgard. I have a question about something. If Zelda and Link had the full Triforce together then left it in the SR would it work? This quote in LttP struck me as odd: "But, the previous residents sure left a mischievous thing behind. The "Golden Power"...

Only if they then stayed in and died in the Sacred Realm.

The SNES manual says the Seal War was the first time the Sacred Realm had ever been opened.

The GBA manual either says the Triforce never left the Sacred Realm till the Seal War (NoA) or no on ever returned from looking for the Sacred Realm (NoJ). So no matter how you spin it, it's pretty unlikely that Link/Zelda placed the Triforce back in the Sacred Realm.




Oh and I have a question. How does the Triforce get into the SR for LttP in your timeline? I remember previously (like 8 months ago...) you believed that the Triforce at the end of OoX turning into birds meant nothing.
Well I found the bird thing to be symbolism, just like in LA with Marin. The Triforce flies up and disappears, and birds remain behind symbolically. I believe that was the Triforce flying back to the Sacred Realm, but I agree that it's not exactly a strong point.

However, we do know the Triforce was left behind to maintain the "order" of the world. OoX Japanese text states that the "essences" being corrupted by Veran/Onox were the same word, "order", as what the Triforce is supposed to maintain. So it's possible that, having preserved order as it was supposed to, the Triforce returned to the Sacred Realm.

It's possible that someone just placed it there later though, as my Seal War is Ocarina of Time.

[sign of table]

Only if they then stayed in and died in the Sacred Realm.

The SNES manual says the Seal War was the first time the Sacred Realm had ever been opened.

The GBA manual either says the Triforce never left the Sacred Realm till the Seal War (NoA) or no on ever returned from looking for the Sacred Realm (NoJ). So no matter how you spin it, it's pretty unlikely that Link/Zelda placed the Triforce back in the Sacred Realm.
I was sure there was something I was forgetting. Thanks for clearing that up.

Yeah the Triforce pre-LttP pretty much sucks either way and requires assumptions to work.

Frankly I'm still fairly unsure about what to do with the timeline. I'm extremely tempted to just go the AG path and just not have a timeline while still defending my non-timeline beliefs.

[Tingle]

sorry Erimgard I didnt see this had been replied to

I cant remember exactly but the theory is that when Link is sent back in time he takes the ToC with him meaning there is no ToC on the AT so nobody can obtain the ToC, something like that.

I dont personally believe that FS is a direct sequel to MC I believe it takes place sometime after MC. I believe sometime passes between FS and FSA also meaning I believe there are three Links or Heros and three Zeldas.

Im not sure what the next question is saying sorry (about the sacred realm).

I dont believe that any other game can be the seal war, there is no OoT seal war events in the child timeline, TP's sealing is quite close last time I thought about it but with the evidence from the Beta I believe thats where Nintendo were trying to place the game and where they do place it. The Seal War doesnt really work anywhere to be fair.

So what your saying is ALttP ends and the triforce is whole, the King then obtains the Triforce and passes parts of it to the Prince and Zelda, Zelda is sent to sleep and the wizard dies. They name every Zelda - Zelda in her honour. Eventually The Triforce splits because of Zelda and Ganon and its reunited for the start of OoX. Actually I believe the Legend of Zelda "The BS not the game" takes place at the start of the timeline cause otherwise why would all the other Zeldas be called Zelda if its not a proclomation till the very end.

[MrMosley]

I'm just gonna structure your timeline like this so I can read it better when I reply here (to give me something to look at).

.....(AT)......../--WW/PH--ST
MC--FS--OOT
......(CT).......\MM--TP--FSA/ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL

The first problem I see here is that you have ALttP as a direct sequel to FSA. I've never seen that in a timeline before, and here's why. In ALttP, Link does not seem to know Zelda until he meets her in the castle dungeon, and vice versa. Also, there is no mention of Link doing anything prior to the events of ALttP. That tells me that they are obviously different generations of Link and Zelda from FSA.


I cant remember exactly but the theory is that when Link is sent back in time he takes the ToC with him meaning there is no ToC on the AT so nobody can obtain the ToC, something like that.

Well that wouldn't exactly work, seeing as how the ToC is obviously in WW. Being that WW is widely believed (and by you as well) to be on the AT, that would put an end to this theory pretty quick. My own personal opinion of the matter was the Link did gain the ToC somehow as a kid, which I believe was by fate and not from him going through time. The way I see it is Link was sent back through time to a point before he pulled the MS out. So like Ganondorf recieved the ToP mysteriously in TP, Link did so at the end of OoT with the ToC. However, when Link went to Termina, he lost his piece of the Triforce. That's my theory anyway.


I dont personally believe that FS is a direct sequel to MC I believe it takes place sometime after MC. I believe sometime passes between FS and FSA also meaning I believe there are three Links or Heros and three Zeldas.

I agree. I don't like to get into the Four Sword Saga much, just because its so controversial amongst timeline theorists and in my opinion they are really more of a side-quest set of games than anything else, but I believe that MC happens whenever, we'll just say first, then FS happens sometime later with a new generation Link. Actually, I would put FS before FSA as a prequel to it, judging by the intro to FSA, which makes it seem like the Link and Zelda from FS and FSA are the same by identifying them by name, whereas when it talks about MC's Link, it just refers to him as a Hero.


So what your saying is ALttP ends and the triforce is whole, the King then obtains the Triforce and passes parts of it to the Prince and Zelda, Zelda is sent to sleep and the wizard dies. They name every Zelda - Zelda in her honour. Eventually The Triforce splits because of Zelda and Ganon and its reunited for the start of OoX. Actually I believe the Legend of Zelda "The BS not the game" takes place at the start of the timeline cause otherwise why would all the other Zeldas be called Zelda if its not a proclomation till the very end.

I think that was basically what Zelda 2 tried to set up, but there's also the fact that it was the second only of many Zelda titles released. Over time, I'd say the developers kept this story in mind, but didn't follow it strictly. The fact that Zelda is somewhere in a Palace throughout the entire history of the Zelda series, all the way up until AoL, but no game has any mention of her, is kinda odd to me. I think they just wanted to give a reason why the Zelda from LoZ was named Zelda, and to show that the one from AoL was a different one. So far, no game has ever followed up on the BS to AoL, so I think that the whole plot there would explain a lot, but has too many holes in it to be very credible to any other game titles.

[Erimgard]

So what do you two make of the fact that FSA's backstory refers to the events of FS, yet talks about Zelda, indicating the current Zelda?

[Tingle]

That was the idea of the linearist theory Darklink as it wouldnt work so there cant be a split timelime, the triforce is a lower tier evidence for me like geography (unless its obvious i.e. great sea)

I think that might have been when you edited my timeline for your preferance (its okay whatevers best) but I havent put ALttP as a direct sequel to FSA on my timeline because of the reason you said (In FSA, they are friends, in ALttP they dont know each other)

The Sleeping Zelda is one of the reasons I put the originals on the CT as if the great flood happened (even the castle gets flooded at the end) in WW then the sleeping princess would have drowned.

Theory 2
------AT------ (FPTRR) -- WW/PH -- ST -- LoZ/AoL
MC -- FS -- OOT
------CT------ /MM -- TP/(LCT) -- FSA -- ALttP (GBA)/LA -/- OOX

This is my second idea is this more viable as I made the mistake of thinking Ganon had the trident in the original NES games and so would make sense on the Adult Timeline but the problem of Zelda drowning still remains.

[MrMosley]

That was the idea of the linearist theory Darklink as it wouldnt work so there cant be a split timelime, the triforce is a lower tier evidence for me like geography (unless its obvious i.e. great sea)

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that this is your theory? Also, I see the placement of the Triforce as a very important factor in the timeline. True, there are some plot holes, such as many people believing that OoT is the SW spoken of in ALttP's BS, but that's not what I believe, so the Triforce has more value towards the timeline for me. Link having to gather the Triforce in WW is a MAJOR part of the story.


I think that might have been when you edited my timeline for your preferance (its okay whatevers best) but I havent put ALttP as a direct sequel to FSA on my timeline because of the reason you said (In FSA, they are friends, in ALttP they dont know each other)

I'm confused again on what you are trying to say. In your original post, you have ALttP as a direct sequel to FSA. That would mean that they contain the same Link and Zelda. You can have many reasons why you believe that ALttP is a direct sequel to FSA, but the fact that Link and Zelda do not know each other in ALttP breaks all of those reasons (if that's what you are arguing here).[/QUOTE]


The Sleeping Zelda is one of the reasons I put the originals on the CT as if the great flood happened (even the castle gets flooded at the end) in WW then the sleeping princess would have drowned.

Right. That makes good sense. But I still don't really consider AoL's BS as a good example to use when making a timeline. As I had stated, it just isn't relavent enough anymore to the other games. But still, even without it, the timeline would fall into place as you have it there in your first theory.



Theory 2
------AT------ (FPTRR) -- WW/PH -- ST -- LoZ/AoL
MC -- FS -- OOT
------CT------ /MM -- TP/(LCT) -- FSA -- ALttP (GBA)/LA -/- OOX

This is my second idea is this more viable as I made the mistake of thinking Ganon had the trident in the original NES games and so would make sense on the Adult Timeline but the problem of Zelda drowning still remains.

Well the developers, as I have stated already, don't seem to care about the BS in AoL. If they did, the would make reference to her in the newer games that have came out after it. So the fact that Zelda might drown obviously isn't important to them, therefore it isn't important to the storyline anymore (at least until they make mention of her down the road some time). This second theory could work as well, but not if you have it structured like this because of the water's receding or something. Maybe the Hyrule in LoZ/AoL is the new land discovered by Link and Tetra (the land obviously shown in ST). That would make sense to a certain degree.

[Tingle]

No that is not my theory it is a linearist theory to try to dispell the idea of a split timeline which I obviously believe in as my theory is a split timeline.

Sorry I was just looking at my timeline and not the bit I put direct sequels at the bottom now I understand that was just a mistake no I dont believe it is a direct sequel but a generational sequel. Hope that clears that up.

Could very well be that the developers know the story but wont restrain themselves to following the story but it still does make things a bit difficult to place.

"So what do you two make of the fact that FSA's backstory refers to the events of FS, yet talks about Zelda, indicating the current Zelda?"

Well I dont actually believe that they are talking about the same Zelda, as they were all princesses of hyrule and all called Zelda. Ive read the passage and it doesnt really say it is the current Zelda or Link and just that it is a Link and Zelda.

--EDIT--

Ive just had an idea after watching a timeline theory on Youtube (yeah I know). Well here it is.

Would an order of ALttP - LoZ/AoL - OoX/LA make sense, Ill explain the idea.

At the end of ALttP, Ganon is defeated/killed by Link and Link meets the essence of the triforce and wishes that the actions of ALttP never took place and so Ganon is resurrected in a way. Then he eventually re-breaks his seal and the events of LoZ take place (the reason there's only two pieces of triforce is that Zelda II says that he wasnt ready/old enough to obtain it but since WW Link seems so young (I prefer not ready), he becomes ready and they attempt to resurrect Ganon in AoL but fail. Time passes and with the triforce being whole as of the end of AoL, Link goes to check on it in OoX where Twinrova attempt to resurrect Ganon through Onox and Veran. This link then sets to return to Hyrule and is shiprecked leading through to LA which I think is possible without this Link having to have been the one from ALttP, i.e. Aganhaim being a mini-boss etc.

Please tell me what you think and if you think its wrong please tell me why, thanks