64-Bit Dungeon Comparison

[Mases]

This basically is a closer look at one of the commong OOT vs MM debates, the Dungeons.

What I consider Dungeons, Ocarina of Time had... 11 of them.
The Great Deku Tree
Dodongo's Cavern
Jabu-Jabu's Belly
Forest Temple
First Temple
Ice Cavern
Water Temple
Bottom of the Well
Shadow Temple
Spirit Temple
Ganon's Castle.

Majora's Mask on the other hand, had... 6 of them
Woodfall Temple
Snowhead Temple
Great Bay Temple
Ikana Castle
Stone Tower Temple
The Moon

You could consider the Gerudo Piriate area in Majora's Mask a temple, but then I also think, why not consider the Gerudo Fortress a temple? Thus, I've left both of them out.

So overal, Ocarina of Time had 11, Majora's Mask had 6. Nearly double within the Ocarina of Time.

Within Ocarina of Time, I really loved the progression in difficulty the dungeons had. When I first picked it up and played the Deku Tree, I even thought that was perfect in terms of difficulty. A lot of the basic puzzles were new to me, but that is what I liked about it. Simply, straight forward, and a lot of fun. Progressed greatly through young link, with each of the next two getting progressively harder. Then with adult Link, the Forest Temple picked up and was quite difficult and so on and so forth...

Majora's Mask had the same idea. Woodfall Temple was no cake walk by any means, but still rather easy in comparison to the other ones. Snowhead was much harder, and by the time you got to Great Bay and Stone Tower, those were rediculously hard in my opinion.

So what do you guys prefer? A game that had a ton of more simple temples/dungeons, or ones that had a few, but they were quite hard. Personally, I liked the OOT dungeons, especially the easy ones because they actually were not too hard. In an adventure game you want to progress. Don't want to just be stuck in one area over and over. Gave me the feeling that I was progressiving nicely when I first got the game. Great transition to harder temples with Adult Link as well.

In Majora's Mask, I got through Woodfall quickly, Snowhead gave me some trouble, but the Great Bay Temple was terrible in my opinion. Looking back on it, it was an okay Temple, but at the time I thought it was just way too hard. I put the game down for some time after getting stuck at the Great Bay Temple and just didn't want to proceed. I eventually did and beat the game, but I personally don't like being stuck to the point where I just want to give up.

So all in all, the more dungeons, the better. A lot of easy ones that progressively get hard that leed to one or two real tough ones is perfect for me. Thus I like Ocarina of Time a bit better in terms of purely dungeons.

[Standard Gamer]

I don't care how many dungeons are in a game, just as long as they have more interesting puzzles and raise the difficulty of the game.

[LegendZ]

The more dungeons the better, atleast if they're challenging, if they're too easy i don;t like em :)

[Alder Dragon]

Personally, I like open-endedness in a game rather than dungeons. Don't get me wrong, I love dungeons: the more the merrier. But more importantly to me, is the extensiveness of the game. Side quests, minigames, many items, large overworld, no restriction on where to explore, that kind of stuff.

[zeypherlink]

I like more dungeons that are harder. OoT did that really good, but lately the dungeons have been pretty easy (PH and TP).

[Onilink89]

I like more dungeons that are harder. OoT did that really good, but lately the dungeons have been pretty easy (PH and TP).

agreed. oot had more dungeons and it not like the dungeons were that easy.
so oot had a balaced number and diffuculty of dungeons.

[Mases]

I don't care how many dungeons are in a game, just as long as they have more interesting puzzles and raise the difficulty of the game.


I disagree with this kind of statement. It is like saying, which would you rather have, the Great Deku Tree, Dodongo's Cavern, and Jabu-Jabu's Belly...... or just Stone Tower Temple.

Me personally, I'd rather have the three easier dungeons rather than the one hard one. To me, it seems that it gives the game more depth to have more/easier dungeons than less/harder dungeons. In those long/hard dungeons I find myself playing within them for say 45 minutes or so, then just getting the main item. It's like, I can't even wait for the dungeon to get over with so I can proceed with the game. This happened to me in the Great Bay Temple in Majora's Mask and in Arbitor's Grounds in Twilight Princess. Just got sick of being in the Temple, that I just put the game down for an extended period of time before I ever came back to it.

[Standard Gamer]

I disagree with this kind of statement. It is like saying, which would you rather have, the Great Deku Tree, Dodongo's Cavern, and Jabu-Jabu's Belly...... or just Stone Tower Temple.

Me personally, I'd rather have the three easier dungeons rather than the one hard one. To me, it seems that it gives the game more depth to have more/easier dungeons than less/harder dungeons. In those long/hard dungeons I find myself playing within them for say 45 minutes or so, then just getting the main item. It's like, I can't even wait for the dungeon to get over with so I can proceed with the game. This happened to me in the Great Bay Temple in Majora's Mask and in Arbitor's Grounds in Twilight Princess. Just got sick of being in the Temple, that I just put the game down for an extended period of time before I ever came back to it.


Okay first off, Arbitor's Grounds in TP was not difficult.

Second I would rather have some sort of challenge, so it shows that the developers actually took time making the dungeon interesting. Ocarina Of Time may have had lots more dungeons then MM, but they were mostly dull and easy.


I would rather have Stone Tower Temple. {My favourite Zelda dungeon yet}

[small link]

I like the dungeuns in ocarina of time best. every time i beat one i would already be wondering what the next one would be like because each one is totally different from the one before it. I like the ones in mm too but at first they took me a really long time to beat.

[RyanNope]

I also think quality beats quantity. Majora's Mask could've had more temples but if you think about it, The amount of time it takes to beat Ocarina of Time vs the amount of time it takes to beat Majora's Mask It's about the same (for me). The temples in Majora's mask are take longer and are harder to beat. Not to mention that they are alot more fun than Ocarina of Time temples too.

[Alder Dragon]

Personally, I think it is a battle between quality and quantity, like Ryan said. I'd like to see 50% quality and 50% quantity, or well, 100% of each, but you know what I mean. half and half. OoT lacked difficulty (somewhat) in some of the dungeons, and Majora's Mask lacked the amount of dungeons, but MM also had an immensive replayability with all of the side-quests. I like how The Wind Waker's dungeons were set up. I feel there were enough dungeons, and I feel they were challenging enough the first time through.

[Kybyrian]

I preferred Ocarina of Time's temples more. I mean, on some of MM's, you could be stuck for a long time without knowing what to do. The Great Bay Temple was hard for me, especially the sort of lead-up to it where you had to collect the eggs. The Stone Tower Temple for me was a breeze, not too hard at all. Woodfall was pretty easy, and the moon was terribly easy if you do the sides and get the Fierce Deity's Mask. Ikana castle was also pretty easy to me.

The Water Temple in OoT was viciously hard. The Shadow Temple was pretty confusing. The Spirit Temple was a breeze along with the Bottom of the Well. In the Forest Temple I got stuck on one part but out of that rather quick. Jabu-Jabu's belly was terribly hard. Ganon's Tower was so easy, along with Ganon and Ganondorf himself. The Ice Cavern was pretty easy besides the block puzzle. Dodongo's Cavern had it's hard moments. The Fire Temple wasn't exactly a breeze. The Great Deku Tree had it's moment right at the beginning with the web, but the boss was too easy seeing as how you can actually defeat her in a few seconds.

I'm pretty sure that includes all that was listed.

[Mases]

I think it is quite clear that a majority of gamers would say that the Water Temple was easily the hardest dungeon in the Ocarina of Time. I would definately agree. However, looking back on it, it is just as has been stated in numerous threads before. The 3d environment of Ocarina of Time was brand new to us, so a hard dungeon was extremely hard since we had never experienced it before. Heck, you even gain experience as you go through a game. Personally, I was stuck longer on the Forest Temple than I was on the Water Temple.

That being said, even after I got the experience from Ocarina of Time, I do not think it was nearly as hard as the Great Bay Temple. Now that temple was hard and very frustrating. Changing the direction of the water flow was way more confusing than changing the water level in my opinion. Both dungeons were rather hard, but I think the Great Bay Temple was the hardest dungeon between the two games. With the Stone Tower Temple being the close second, then followed by the Water Temple.

[Kybyrian]

For me, the Water Temple was easily the hardest temple out of the two games. Then the Great Bay Temple, and then the Stone Tower Temple. I find most ice/water oriented temples/dungeons to be very hard. Like Jabu Jabu's belly and the Water Temple from Ocarina of Time were water-related and there were the hardest two in the game for me. Then the Great Bay Temple in Majora's Mask, also water-related. Then was the Lakebed Temple and Snowhead Mansion Ruins which were both related to water or ice. It's a funny thing really.

[Onilink89]

sorry i have do disagree with some of you guys, as i said in my previeus post, i think oot temples are well balanced between quality and quantity. to be honest i don 't see a huge gap between quality of OOT and MM. in MM there were a little extra 's and the transformation masks were interesting to the gameplay. and nintendo also used some of the beta files that they left out in OOT.

most puzzles were based on the item that you get in the temple with OOT and same goes with the bosses.

now to MM, most puzzles are based with masks and the arrows that you get.
the only temple i had a little trouble with was great bay temple. and the boss fight i liked is the first one (owolda or something like that)

about diffculty, the first 3 dungeons of oot were a little on the easy side but thats logical. its the first 3d zelda game and its like an intruduction. (but still the first time i played inside lord jabu jabu, i had some trouble) but oot temples easy, are you kiddin me?

[Kybyrian]

The Water Temple was terribly hard, and Jabu Jabu's belly wasn't too easy either. The first two dungeons were pretty easy. The Forest Temple got me stuck sometimes, and the same with the Fire Temple. Ocarina of Time temples weren't too hard, but they weren't too easy either. Some of the Majora's Mask dugeons, like Ikana Castle were just too easy, and then some were just too hard, but playable.

[RyanNope]

The Water temple was a bit confusing and easy to get turned around in. Other than that the OoT temples were a sinch. Now the Ocean temple in MM took me a day or two to figure it out the third time through. You think thats bad, it took me weeks the first time I went through. where as the Water Temple in OoT only took me a day my first time through, And that was without a strategy guide or walkthrough.

[Onilink89]

really? its the opposite for me. first time playing great bay temple i only had trouble with finding the boss key. because i noticed from the start the system of the temple. after the first two temple, i had a feeling each temple has a certain system. so for the great temple was, first unlock the pipes and then revearse the water flow to acces the other rooms in the temple. its not like that you had to change the water flow constently.

i had more trouble with water temple of oot. 3 floors, each has 4 directions. in this temple for the first time farore 's wind came in handy and the keys were well hidden, even looking at the dungeon map with the compass its sometimes hard to figure out were the treasure chest are.

[Petman1325]

I like more dungeons that are harder. OoT did that really good, but lately the dungeons have been pretty easy (PH and TP).

Phantom Hourglass had a combonation of Hard and Easy. It took me about 15 minutes to beat Goron Temple.:clap:

[Mases]

I think the debate of Water Temple vs Great Bay Temple can go on forever, hehe.

I stand by my opinion in thinking the Great Bay Temple was harder, and it was also longer. Think of it this way, after beating both temples several times, playing through them again and getting everything in the Temples, it would take a longer time to beat the Great Bay Temple.

In Ocarina of Time there are a few skulltulas, one mini-boss, and then the dungeon boss. While in Majora's Mask, there are the 15 stray fairies, two mini-boss battles, and then the dungeon boss.

Heck, once you master the Water Temple, you'll be spending more time putting your iron boots on and changing the water level than actually playing, hehe. At least in Majora's Mask, didn't have to change the water direction much.

All in all, these were two my least favorite temples in both Zelda titles. Not so much because they were hard, I just never was too found of 3d water dungeons in the first place. But still, I think Great Bay Temple was the hardest of all the N64 Zelda dungeons.

[miku]

I love the Great Bay temple. It's the kind of temple that, when I first walk into it and take a look at the first main confusing room, I think "Oh good god.." and then find myself a few minutes later saying "I'm starting to see how this works. Alright, we got this. We got this by the ***!"

I think OoT and MM both show great examples of what 3d Zelda dungeons should be. A little bit more than just lighting the torches or pushing the block. The Great Deku tree, even being as simple and short as it was, has that web in the first room you need to break through. Snowhead has a towering puzzle involving platform height.
In every dungeon I like to see classic Zelda puzzles mixed with new dungeon-specific concepts.

Stone Tower Temple was hard, but you feel a bit more relaxed and determined when you have the map and compass and know how to turn the level upside-down, which, by the way, I think was a beautifully genius way to distinguish MM's final temple, right down to the trippy altered arrangement of the music.

[Zelda Granny]

I really liked both games. I had the most trouble in the Stone Tower mostly because you have to put out the fire for the chest and then fly as a Deku to the door. I also found the Garo hard to kill. I enjoyed them though, even when I got frustrated.

[miku]

You found the Garo hard to kill? Are you serious? You are talking about the ones that pop up when you wear the Garo mask, right? The ones that you hold your shield up, and then they bounce off of you and sit harmlessly on the ground before you waiting to be stabbed once, right?

[Onilink89]

maybe she meant the garo master. i also had trouble first time fighting it. i hate that stupid counter it gives everytime that you hit it. and also that stupid teleport move and then attacks you from behind, thats a cheap shot.

[miku]

Ah, yeah, she probably was talking about him. He's not too hard though if you wait for him to come at you and side jump.

[Zelda Granny]

Yeah, that's the one, the Garo Master. It seemed that he got me from behind every time I tried to move lol. The guide I had said to shoot him with the ice arrow but, he blocked it almost every time. I actually killed him on the first try but used FOUR fairies. I just thought he was really hard.

[Mases]

I barely remember the Garo Master, in fact, I barely remember any of the bosses in Majora's Mask :(.

However, one thing I easilly recall, is the massive amount of sub-bosses in Majora's Mask. I remember fighting Gekkos and Wizrobes multiple times in all the dungeons. Also remember fighting a Dinolofos and that one Eye boss from the Great Bay Temple that reminded me of Arrghus from A Link to the past.

In comparison to Ocarina of Time, where the dungeon bosses in general, were limited. In fact, I can't really recall any sub-bosses other than Dark Link in the Water Temple, and maybe you could consider the Iron Knuckles in the Spirit Temple. Even the Lizalfos in Dodongo's Cavern too or the Stalfos in the Forest Temple. However, these enemies didn't really seem much like Mini-bosses to me. If I recall correctly, in the mini-boss battles in Majora's Mask and some in OOT, you were sorta locked in the room.

I think that is what defines a mini-boss. If you can just leave the room or area that they are in, I think they could be argued that they are regular enemies and not mini-bosses, but if the doors are locked and you have to battle the boss, than its a mini-boss.

All in all, I'm a big fan of mini-bosses and thus, I thought this was a cool part of Majora's Mask that Ocarina of Time sorta lacked. Gives the temples much more depth.

[scarecrowlink]

For me, it's the more dungeons the better, but I agree that quality is way more important than quantity. I would love to see a game that has like 3 small dungeons, 4 or 5 regular size dungeons, and 4 or 5 massive uber-dungeons that would be like 2 or 3 regular dungeons combined. I'm talking this game would be gigantic and might even span 2 discs to fit everything on there. And higher difficulty is never a bad thing. I like it when I get stuck and have to figure things out or even backtrack to get more info or better prepare myself. And I think that the open-endedness of the franchise is one of everyone's favorite aspects of it. Give me a sprawling overworld and 3 different sizes of dungeons and let me get to work. I'm having trouble thinking of what would be my favorite dungeon of all time...probably the Temple of Time or Spirit Temple from OoT. I loved the fact that you had to go to the Spirit Temple as a child and an adult to complete it. As I said in another post, I missed out on Majora's Mask so I really have nothing to reference in that game, but I think that no matter what, the dungeons from OoT will always be the most vivid in my imagination because I've played through that game more times than I can remember.

[Mehplep]

I think it's the golden mean between quality and quantity. It's not fun with a dungeon that is solved in like an half hour, but it's not either fun with a dungeon that requires like a several months. The temples in MM have a perfect length I think, however, that is just because you have side-quests in the dungeon too. In OoT, there was three Skulltulas per dungeon. Great number for a side-quest-thingy. MM had 15 stray fairies, and sometimes, they really pissed me off. And it was just a optional thing! If the stray fairies was significently smaller, and the main thing in the temple about twice as big, then it would've been a perfect dungeon.

Also, atm, Stone Tower Temple is my favourite top-Zelda dungeon for all games. Could be better on puzzles, but the whole temple's visually looking, the upsidedown-changing, the music theme (love it...), all the mini-bosses, constantly changing between the masks... it's really an awesome dungeon.

[Mases]

For me, it's the more dungeons the better, but I agree that quality is way more important than quantity. I would love to see a game that has like 3 small dungeons, 4 or 5 regular size dungeons, and 4 or 5 massive uber-dungeons that would be like 2 or 3 regular dungeons combined.

I do think quality is all relative, since honestly, its hard to think of a Zelda temple or dungeon that was just so bad in quality that it was unplayable. However, you did say you prefer quality, but then said your ideal game would have 11-13 dungeons, hehe. I would also agree with this and would want a ton of dungeons. I just think more is always important. However, even if it has 4main dungeons and then a few side dungeons (Majora's Mask), even if the dungeons are absolutely amazing, I think I'd still prefer a game with a more diverse showing of dungeons.

I think it's the golden mean between quality and quantity. It's not fun with a dungeon that is solved in like an half hour, but it's not either fun with a dungeon that requires like a several months.

I disagree with this and I think Phantom Hourglass is the perfect example. The Temple of Fire (the 1st temple for those who haven't played the game), can be beaten in 10minutes if you know what to do. Similarly, almost all the dungeons in A Link to the Past could be beaten in 5-15minutes, yet I think the dungeons in both games are all great. Even the Great Deku Tree can be beaten in a short time but I also love that one. I don't think quality or difficulty is determined by length of a dungeon.



What I find very important, is diversity in the dungeons. Almost every single Zelda title does a great job making each dungeon distinct from the other dungeons. Basically, 'themed' dungeons is the reasoning. A Water based dungeon, a fire based one, a wind based one, a forest one, a desert themed one, etc...

I think both Majoras Mask and Ocarina of Time did a great job diversifying their dungeons. I prefer Ocarina of Time in this aspect, because simply, it had more. Goes back to the quantity over quality. Since Majora's Mask had less dungeons, they didn't have a 'fire or a ghost/shadow temple'. Plus, OOT had 2 'foresty' dungeons in the Deku Tree and Forest Temple, as well as 2 'fire' dungeons with Dodongo's Cavern and the Fire Temple. That being said, the Majora's Mask temples were harder/longer, but personally think the quantity is more important aspect when comparing.

[zeypherlink]

Yeah, I agree. I prefered the dungeons in Ocarina of Time over the ones in Majora's Mask, and I also thought they were longer and harder.
Ocarina of Time really did have some awesome dungeons, lol. The Spirit Temple was epic, and the Shadow Temple was perfect for playing in the dark :)

[Standard Gamer]

Yeah, I agree. I prefered the dungeons in Ocarina of Time over the ones in Majora's Mask, and I also thought they were longer and harder.

The dungeons in Ocarina Of Time were not difficult. Longer.....maybe than Majora's Mask, but not harder then MM.

[Mehplep]

I just have too agree with some previous posters, that stated that OoT had a more fluid way to make each dungeon harder with time, excluded Ice Cavern and Bottom of the Well. But I didn't really like that concept, actually. Deku Tree was a great starter dungeon, and it increased in difficulty very smoothly and good as you proceeded in the game. But it just made most dungeons too easy, because you were a bit prepared for what would come. In MM, on the other side, you started off with Woodfall, witch maybe was a bit too hard for a first dungeon, but still a great fun to begin with. And the suddenly you're throwed in Snowhead, witch was a signifently harder dungeon... and bingo, you have to think and act more! And I liked that concept more than the OoT dungeons...

[Avenged]

I just have too agree with some previous posters, that stated that OoT had a more fluid way to make each dungeon harder with time, excluded Ice Cavern and Bottom of the Well. But I didn't really like that concept, actually. Deku Tree was a great starter dungeon, and it increased in difficulty very smoothly and good as you proceeded in the game. But it just made most dungeons too easy, because you were a bit prepared for what would come. In MM, on the other side, you started off with Woodfall, witch maybe was a bit too hard for a first dungeon, but still a great fun to begin with. And the suddenly you're throwed in Snowhead, witch was a signifently harder dungeon... and bingo, you have to think and act more! And I liked that concept more than the OoT dungeons...

The reason why the Ice Cavern seemed short was because it was originally meant to be the Ice Temple. There is a number of reasons why it was shortened, just like there are reasons why the Wind Temple was taken out...same with the Temple of Light. The major one was the pre-release of real Ura Zelda on the 64DD.

[Mases]

I'm not a big fan of 'half' dungeons in a way. Much like the Ice Cavern or Bottom of the Well in Ocarina of Time. Or the Gerudo Pirate Area in Majora's Mask and even to a lesser extent, Ikana Castle.


I think a dungeon needs to have a final boss in order to be classified as a dungeon. There needs to be a map/compass/and a dungeon item in order for it to be classified as one in my books as well. Most every Zelda dungeon has these three items. The side 'mini' dungeons are fun and all, but I prefer the normal dungeons. There are a few in each game with the main ones being the four I listed below. I didn't consider other areas like the skulltula houses in majora's mask because I think it has to be required to be considered a dungeon in anyway.

I don't remember Ikana Castle THAT much to comment on it, but I do remember it not being too long or hard. Same with the Ice Cavern in Ocarina of Time. If I had to choose, I think I'd give the edge to Ocarina of Time for the mini-dungeons as well.

As Avenged said though, I think I'd rather they included the 'Ice Temple' and even the 'Wind Temple' and 'Temple of Light'. The more, the better. :)

[Mehplep]

Agreed, mini-dungeons arent the best parts in a Zelda game. I also agree that a good bossfight in the end is needed, and map/compass/item...

I although really value the time between the dungeons. Games like ALttP was mostly dungeons - after you've completed one, just make your way to the next and wtart working. I can't really say that I hate this concept though, I just like when you have to do something in between the dungeons more. LA was a great game in that way, that you needed to investigate the new area and, in most dungeons, find a key to unlock the next dungeon. It gives the Overworld so much more meaning... But I don't like mini-dungeons as a between-dungeon-thingy, I see them more like failed dungeons, where the programmers could've done so much more...

[Zelda Granny]

This will probably sound like a dumb question but what are 64DD and Ura Zelda... I've never heard of them? They sound interesting though.

[Alder Dragon]

This will probably sound like a dumb question but what are 64DD and Ura Zelda... I've never heard of them? They sound interesting though.

64DD was an add-on to the N64 that never saw the light of day, besides Japan. Here is a link to the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64DD

It's a bit like the Sega 32x, but this add on was made more for the purpose of enhancing games, rather than creating new franchises for use for the 64DD. I personally don't know much about Ura Zelda - if you want to learn about it ask Avenged. From what I know though, it was a title to be released as an expansion pack for Ocarina of Time, sort of like the Master Quest. Some of what we have in Majora's Mask and the Master Quest (GC) are said to be taken from the Ura Zelda game that was never released. That is my understanding of it, but I could be (and am most likely) wrong.

[Matthew_79]

I wouldent call it simmilar to the sega 32X. It was a for disks and more room to make games, not to improve graphix. While it could be used that way it was going to be used for larger games the cartedges the n64 used only held abit more then 25mb a cd can hold atleast 80mb.

[Avenged]

Actually, its other purpose was in fact to improvre graphics, but yes it was only an addon disk system.

[pieking]

See the thing about the OoT and Majora's Mask is that despite the fact OoT had nearly double the temples, Majora's took me alot longer to complete. Majora's Mask went way more in depth then OoT did in terms of getting to temples. In OoT it was like ok beat one, on to the next. With Majora's it was like, do a side quest to get to the temple, beat the temple, reset the time, do the side quest for the next temple, go beat the temple, so on and so forth. And the side quests were no 15 minute task, more of a 30-45 minute task that you had to commit to because if you took a break its like ok where do I have to go now.. I forget. Atleast for me it was.. and I have a good memory. I enjoyed the simplicity of OoT more then Majora's though. OoT gets a 9/10 for me, Majora's is right there at like 8/10 from me.

[Mases]

Agreed, mini-dungeons arent the best parts in a Zelda game. I also agree that a good bossfight in the end is needed, and map/compass/item...

I think the term good is a bit misleading. What exactly is good? More creative? More difficult? More fun?

I really didn't think much of the Majora's Mask bosses. Some of them were a bit more challenging than the Ocarina of Time bosses but they didn't have enough uniqueness and just weren't that fun in comparison. I loved Barinade, Bongo-Bongo, Twinrova, and Volvagia. They were all a bit difficult the first time around but now for the most part, are relatively easy. Still, they are a lot of fun. Majora's Mask had sub-bosses in almost all the temples, which was awesome, and some of them were really cool. (I loved Wart from the Great Bay Temple)

In terms of bosses, Ocarina of Time gets a B+, while Majora's Mask gets a C.



It gives the Overworld so much more meaning... But I don't like mini-dungeons as a between-dungeon-thingy, I see them more like failed dungeons, where the programmers could've done so much more...

I do like the time between dungeons as well, which basically is completely what Majora's Mask was about. There was no straight temple to temple type thing. Sure there were those mini-dungeons, which I think are decent as long as they aren't... too hard or long. (I don't get the good feeling of beating a mini-dungeon, so having a hard one just isn't too exciting).


And the side quests were no 15 minute task, more of a 30-45 minute task that you had to commit to because if you took a break its like ok where do I have to go now.. I forget.

Yup, completely true. I didn't like all the mini-dungeons, but there was also a TON of optional quests. So if you just didn't want to go to the next temple... or if you were just stuck in a temple, there was a lot more to do in the game. Was pretty easy to get sidetracked from the main quest with all the sidequests. Sometimes you wouldn't even be able to finish some sidequests because of the time and you'd have to go back 3 days. I think the overall consensus is that Majora's Mask is a sidequest bananaza... which is a good thing. :)

[PrinceofDarkness]

This basically is a closer look at one of the commong OOT vs MM debates, the Dungeons.

So what do you guys prefer? A game that had a ton of more simple temples/dungeons, or ones that had a few, but they were quite hard. Personally, I liked the OOT dungeons, especially the easy ones because they actually were not too hard.

That's my only complaint with OOT actually. The kid dungeons were too easy and short. I like tons of dungeons but I like the dungeons themselves to all be tough. the enemies on the other hand I like to progressively get harder as you get bigger and better weapons. I also hated Jabu Jabu's belly, I don't know something about the dungeon not sure if it's the color scheme or what really turns me off to it. MM dungeonwise was I think almost just right. The only dungeon I didn't like was the stone one which took me weeks to pass cuz it was ridiculously confusing.

[Mases]

The kid dungeons were too easy and short. I like tons of dungeons but I like the dungeons themselves to all be tough.


Really, you thought the kid dungeons were TOO easy? Think about this, if there were no kid dungeons, and the first dungeon was actually the Forest Temple, that would be ridiculously hard for the first dungeon. Heck, that being the 4th dungeon, I still thought it was really hard. I think Woodfall Temple was easier than the Forest Temple.

In my opinion, if Ocarina of Time was your first 3d Zelda title, I think the Great Deku Tree is a good challenge. Heck, I was even stuck on it for quite some time the first time I played through. It was the first time we were in a 3d environment for Zelda, so it was all a mystery.

Now on the flipside, given there was a TON of things to do before the first dungeon in Majora's Mask, but Woodfall Temple was MUCH harder than the Great Deku Tree. Most Majora's Mask players had played Ocarina of Time first, so were used to dungeon navigating, so Woodfall wasn't THAT difficult. However, if that was the first dungeon in the first 3d Zelda game, that would be way too hard for people. I give a thumbs up to the child Link dungeons in Ocarina of Time.

[PrinceofDarkness]

Really, you thought the kid dungeons were TOO easy? Think about this, if there were no kid dungeons, and the first dungeon was actually the Forest Temple, that would be ridiculously hard for the first dungeon.

I don't know I think it'd be fun to start out with that one. Maybe I've just played too many zelda games but even when I played OOT for the first time I passed the kid dungeons really quickly and couldn't wait to get big. If they started with it though they'd probably have to remove the wall masters and put in some weaker enemies. The big skeleton guys would be impossibly hard to pass with 3 hearts and phantom Ganon would probably have to deal less damage.



Now on the flipside, given there was a TON of things to do before the first dungeon in Majora's Mask, but Woodfall Temple was MUCH harder than the Great Deku Tree.

Yeah I liked how it was tough, granted I still passed it pretty fast but the dungeon itself took alot more skill to beat than the deku tree.

[Y2K3]

I found the OoT temples to be a really nice difficulty level. The MM were a bit too much for my tastes, thus I don't play the game very much. Perhaps it was just the 'if you go back in time, you ahve to start the whole temple over' element, but they were still a pain, IMO.

[The Zelda Master]

Really, MM's dungeons seamed to have a different feal to them than OOT did. not only were the based aorund an item you'd find in the temple (the arrow types) you also had to use what you learned so far about the different Masks, espeacially the transformation themed masks. This makes The last two dungeon's espeacially difficult because of all the changed in gameplay as well as the time compressions, etc. Thank goodness for the little cheats in both games where you could telliport to basically right in front of the temple so you could do it all again next time through. Darn Skull kid was so nice though, placing those pads for you to wlak on so you could fight the bosses right off the bat again. So thoughtful.

[Zelda Granny]

I personally enjoyed both games quite a bit. By the time I got MM I had beaten OOT so many times I was ready for another challenge. I liked the difference in MM although I did think it was more difficult. I have both games on my gamecube and still play them when I need a break from TP.

[Mases]

Really, MM's dungeons seamed to have a different feal to them than OOT did. not only were the based aorund an item you'd find in the temple (the arrow types) you also had to use what you learned so far about the different Masks, espeacially the transformation themed masks.

I think in both games, every dungeon was based around the temple item you found. In Majora's Mask, you used Deku Link for the first Temple a lot, Goron Link for the second Temple, and Zora Link for the third Temple. Mainly because they fit the surroundings. (Forest, Mountain, Water). I don't really remember the different types of arrows that well. However, I seem to recall you not using the different types of arrows AS MUCH as you use most dungeon items in their respective them.

So in a sense, Majora's Mask had 2 dungeon items, one of which was a transformation mask. While it was not really a dungeon item, it was used often enough to be considered in the same class.

In Ocarina of Time, like most games, you used the dungeon item extensively within the same dungeon you got it in, as well as against the dungeon boss.


I don't know I think it'd be fun to start out with that one. Maybe I've just played too many zelda games but even when I played OOT for the first time I passed the kid dungeons really quickly and couldn't wait to get big.

When I first got Ocarina of Time, I wasn't aware of the whole, travel through time and get older thingy. I was young back then and even though I loved the older Zelda titles, I wasn't into the whole, searching through Nintendo Power, or reading online about secrets within the game.

[El Bagu]

It seems like I disagree with some of you people. Cause I do not mind if some of the dungeons are a bit on the easy side. What I love most about zelda games (at least thinking about 3D zeldas) is the boss fight. I want lots of dungeons not because I want the trickiest of puzzles but because I want my share of boss fights!

Regarding the two games of the topic I have not yet completed MM but this far prefer OoT because of it having more dungeons. But I may change my mind in the future (and I do actually really like MM) :)

[EponaOwns]

I like how the dungeons progress to a higher level. I mean the deku tree was as simple as cake. I find that MM dungewons are a little bit harder than OOT

[Inflexus]

The emphasis on games with less dungeons is to draw them out more, typically, and make them longer. However I felt the length of Majora's Mask and OoT dungeons was about the same.

The difference was that OoT offered more dungeons, wheras MM offers more side quests(which are either fun or annoying, depending on your mood and what task).

[Twili123prince]

Majoras mask dungeons are way harder the oots dungeons.

[Twili123prince]

Something weird is mm is a smaller game then oot but harder to beat guess you cant judge something from its size then.

[Mases]

I like how the dungeons progress to a higher level. I mean the deku tree was as simple as cake. I find that MM dungewons are a little bit harder than OOT

Nowadays when I look back at The Great Deku Tree, I think it is a piece of cake, yet still a really fun dungeon. However, the first time playing it, 3d Zelda was brand new and I was just adjusting to my surroundings. Given the dungeon was so early in the game, it was still rather difficult. The simple puzzle solving wasn't as clear cut as it is to us Zelda vets now.


Majoras mask dungeons are way harder the oots dungeons.

I definitely agree that they are harder, but I think it is more than just difficulty. I thought all the Ocarina of Time dungeons were hard as Adult Link, (excluding the Ice Cavern, just speaking of the 5 main temples). However, I think only the Water Temple had reached the point of 'aggravating'. Everything else was just difficult that I eventually figured out and got past. The Water Temple was aggravating though.

Majora's Mask on the other hand, I thought Woodfall was an easy temple, but the other 3 major temples were all rather difficult. Each of them, especially the Great Bay Temple and Stone Tower Temple were very aggravating for me. To the point where I just put the game down and didn't feel like playing it anymore for periods of months.


Something weird is mm is a smaller game then oot but harder to beat guess you cant judge something from its size then.

Ideally we'd like the larger game + the sidequests, but I think most Zelda fans would agree that they are good substitutes. I prefer the longer games / more temples, but that is just me.

[Y2K3]

Each of them, especially the Great Bay Temple and Stone Tower Temple were very aggravating for me. To the point where I just put the game down and didn't feel like playing it anymore for periods of months.Oh, good. I'm not alone here. Even some of the side quests got me so aggrivated I wouldn't play the game for a long time. But I even found Woodfall to be really hard.

[zeldafan999]

i dont care how many dungeons there are but if you find out how much dungeons there are like 11 you can tell a lot of stuff is goinging to happen in the story line of the game

[Josh]

The life long dream of all Zelda fans, to have both. Heh.


I preferred Ocarina of Time's dungeon's myself. They seemed harder at some times than Majora's Mask dungeons, and really did take me more time to complete. I thought that they were somewhat more complex, not all dungeons, some though.


I do agree with Mases about hating the half dungeons, they did seem kind of a filler. I mean, spend like 10 minutes going through this mini dungeon just to get the Iron Boots or the Lens of Truth. I didn't really see the point in it.

[Glided Sword]

True: Ocarina of Time's dungeons were hard (through first play, ever) and got somewhat harder but there were so many of them so it was a long game.
Majora's Mask's dungeons were few but also hard.
But I prefer a lot of hard dungeons, such as Twilight Princess which had eight dungeons (in the middle) but they were all hard.
MM's dungeons were defiantly harder than OoT's.

[Rebekah]

i agree with Mases actually...

more dungeons to slowly get harder rather then a few dungeons that end up being really hard at start or at the last minute