Ending of Ocarina of Time

[Mases]

This usually goes hand in hand when speaking of timeline theories. The more commonly accepted theory on the timeline involves the split-timeline, where at the end of the Ocarina of Time, there were really two endings.

One as adult Link, where he has defeated Ganon and restores peace to the land of Hyrule. Ganondorf is sealed in the Sacred Realm. Link is then sent back in time to relive his child years. Time still exists in the adult Link era, just with no Link. Ganondorf eventually escapes the Sacred Realm, hyrule floods, and the Wind Waker takes place.

Another one takes place as young link. After the ending of Ocarina of Time, Young Link is sent back in time seven years so he can relive his childhood. After which, he somehow gets to the Land of Termina and Majora's Mask takes place, and much later, Twilight Princess.

My question is, did Nintendo really think this through when it actually happened? Did they have any idea of a split timeline with two worlds progressing through time at the same time? Or was this just a common fan reaction. Much later in 2006, Aonuma confirmed this split. Is there really a split? Is there an actual timeline of events relating these few games? Any alternate ending opinions for Ocarina of Time? Does it all even matter?

[Alder Dragon]

I think the timeline of Zelda is the worst aspect of the series, or at least the thing that should have been better thought out. I don't think Nintendo planned for this, at least, it is really unlikely in my opinion. If they did plan on making a split timeline, I think they would have made it more obvious. I don't think Nintendo planned much of Zelda's timeline at all, with obvious regards to Wind Waker -> Phantom Hourglass, Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask, etc.

For example, there is the idea that after Link's Awakening, Link had to run around and collect his items again - which leads to LoZ. I highly doubt that when nintendo was creating LoZ, they were planning this.

I personally don't focus on a timeline at all, I just play the games for the games. If there ever is an official timeline released, I'd be happy to look into it and learn more about how the games link together. But for now, I'm not really concerned.

[Onilink89]

i think there is a split timeline but i don 't think OOT caused it. if so then adult link never excisted 7 years in the future so how does the people know the legend about it in WW? and at the ending why does young link goes to zelda (so asume the young zelda remembers everything). anyway the reason because link was in the future in the first place was he was too young to be accepted a hero of time and he soul got trapped in chamber of sages.

my point of vieuw he didn 't travel 7 years in the future or there should be 2 link 's right? so he was trapped 7 years. so he is going upstream and downstream, he not taking one huge hop to the future.

[Seamusmaximus]

I asumed that MM took place in the 7 year gap in the middle of. By this I mean that link progressed untill the point in OOT where he is transported forwards 7 years, during those seven years MM takes place, though link sees it as happening after OOT, and has memorys of OOT happening, thats why he is looking for navi. After MM finnishes the end of OOT actually takes place, and TP takes place sometime after that. However, there are still some problems with this, and I'm still trying to figure out how some elements work out chronalogicaly.:hmm:

[cpunerd96]

I once read a fan story about what happened after OOT. Link, when he turns young at the end of OOT, warns Zelda of Ganondorf and his evil plot. If he hadn't went to Termina afterwards. the story says. He could have watched what he had live throughout those seven years and guided him or whatever. So, really, Majoras Mask was going on at the same period as OOT. THink about that next time you play OOT.

[Dark link]

To be honest i don't think that they we're planing on having a timeline, it seems that each of thee games are their own games and newer gamers can play newer zelda games. They really should have never made link go into the past after OoT.

[linkman8]

That's what some say, is that there is no storyline whatsoever, but hasn't Nintendo said that there is a storyline? I mean Aonuma even hinted at parts of the storyline, especially with OOT.

[Mases]

In issue 165 of Nintendo Power (February 2003), the Wind Waker was featured on the cover of the magazine, corresponding to its release on the gamecube.

There was an interview with Eiji Aonuma within this article.

Aonuma was the Assistant Director of Ocarina of Time as well as the Director of Majoras Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, & Phantom Hourglass.

He wrote, concerning the ending of Ocarina of Time...

"If you think back to the end of Ocarina of Time, there were two endings in that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child."

He goes on to say that the Wind Waker takes place 100years after the events of Adult Link.

I suppose this all but confirms that there is in fact a split timeline, according to Aonuma at least. I actually think if you interviewed a lot of the big shots behind the Zelda series over the years, they would all have different opinions on the ending of the Ocarina of Time and the Zelda Timeline. So just because Aonuma says so, I don't think it is true. I think that he was just tending to the hardcore Zelda fans like us, who break down the timeline detail by detail. It was the most logical point, according to him, so he went ahead and said it.

[Avenged]

I dont rely on what Aunoma has to say so much when it relates to Zelda timeline/storylines, he didnt start helping the Zelda production team until Ocarina of Time.

[Rheks]

Haha, I also think the timeline was like "What the heck?" It's going from years later then years before. xD

[Kybyrian]

Hmm, so in one ending Hyrule and floods and Windwaker takes place, and in another Link rides off and ends up in Termina? I'm not too sure about this.

[linkman8]

Mases had a link to a video one time that explained it quite thoroughly. I don't have the link though.

[Onilink89]

as i said in my first post, if there were really two links then the triforce would not have split in 8 pieces in the first place. so i also have my doubts that about that this ending is the cause of a split timeline. the main reason is because link traveld upwards and downward trough time just because his spirit was 7 year sealed because he was to young.

to put is simple:

1: upwards and downwards trough time
Past<---------->Future

2: Past ---(travels trough time)--->Future
Past<---(travels back in time)---Future

with number one is that the future is still his own time because his spirit was sealed, thats what i mean with upward and downward, it is clearly explained in the game.

with number two, lets just say he takes a jump 7 years in the future. if that were so i would i no doubts about the split timeline because then there should be two links. one in the past and one in the future. at the ending link beats ganondorf as an adult. if this theory is correct then ganondorf will still excist in the past causing one endless cycle.

i hope some people can understand my point of vieuw here.

[linkman8]

I can see what you're coming from, but I don't know if Nintendo would make it that complicated for us. I'd just assume that the timelines keep moving forward and there is no loop.

[Mases]

I believe the theory about this is that after Link defeats Ganon and is sent back to the past. He warns Princess Zelda who warns the thing, preventing the vents in the future ever from happening. Thus Ganon is sealed away, while Link heads off to Termina.

I believe that is the basis of the split-timeline theory. It is very plausable, but not exactly sure I agree with everything with it. There is the space time continuum, as in the movie Back to the Future. If Link does something as a kid, than it would effect the future.


So if all of what happened had happened, and then Link is sent back in time after defeating Ganon, wouldn't there be two Link's in the past? One that is in Kokiri Forest and just beating the Deku Tree, while the other is the Link you play as who was just sent back in time. If you've seen the movie, Back to the Future, you'd understand a bit where I'm coming from with this angle of looking at it.

[zeypherlink]

So if all of what happened had happened, and then Link is sent back in time after defeating Ganon, wouldn't there be two Link's in the past? One that is in Kokiri Forest and just beating the Deku Tree, while the other is the Link you play as who was just sent back in time. If you've seen the movie, Back to the Future, you'd understand a bit where I'm coming from with this angle of looking at it.
Thats exactly what I was thinking. Good movie, btw ;)

I don't think we'll ever really know what was going on, unless Nintendo releases some kind of official timeline for the Zelda series.

[Avenged]

Some say TWW happens in Adult Link timeline since Link want there anymore, but nope. It says clearly in TWW that events of the flooding occured in Young Links timeline.

Firstly it is said that the hero of time was young and that all the boys that grew to a certain age (in TWW) would wear a green garment to represent the hero of time. So Link in TWW is the same age as Link was in OoT.

Secondly, it was said Link went away from Hyrule to depart on another adventure (that being Termina) is when Ganon attacked and the gods flooded Hyrule.

TP happens in Adult Link timeline...If you notice both in TP and TWW it talks about Ganon breaking the seal of the gods and exits the sacred realm...since he was sealed in both worlds..future/present in OoT.

[zeypherlink]

Some say TWW happens in Adult Link timeline since Link want there anymore, but nope. It says clearly in TWW that events of the flooding occured in Young Links timeline.

Firstly it is said that the hero of time was young and that all the boys that grew to a certain age (in TWW) would wear a green garment to represent the hero of time. So Link in TWW is the same age as Link was in OoT.

Secondly, it was said Link went away from Hyrule to depart on another adventure (that being Termina) is when Ganon attacked and the gods flooded Hyrule.

TP happens in Adult Link timeline...If you notice both in TP and TWW it talks about Ganon breaking the seal of the gods and exits the sacred realm...since he was sealed in both worlds..future/present in OoT.
When you put it that way, it sort of makes sense.

[Onilink89]

I believe the theory about this is that after Link defeats Ganon and is sent back to the past. He warns Princess Zelda who warns the thing, preventing the vents in the future ever from happening. Thus Ganon is sealed away, while Link heads off to Termina.

I believe that is the basis of the split-timeline theory. It is very plausable, but not exactly sure I agree with everything with it. There is the space time continuum, as in the movie Back to the Future. If Link does something as a kid, than it would effect the future.


So if all of what happened had happened, and then Link is sent back in time after defeating Ganon, wouldn't there be two Link's in the past? One that is in Kokiri Forest and just beating the Deku Tree, while the other is the Link you play as who was just sent back in time. If you've seen the movie, Back to the Future, you'd understand a bit where I'm coming from with this angle of looking at it.

i have seen the movie and i understand what you are trying to say.
thats what i meant in my last post with number two. i don 't know if link really returns to zelda just to warn her. i think she still remembers everything. notice links triforce on its hand, ganondorf still keeps his triforce and so is zelda. if link is warning about ganon and he returned to a time in his past were zelda and link 's first meeting occurd, then the triforce must be gone from link zelda and ganondorf.

i believe there is somere a split timeline, but i don 't think its the cause of oot. main reason, link is still in his own time even when he is an adult due its spirit trapped for 7 years. let me give a dumb example of my own: its like a old VCR tape that you can go foreward or backward in stead of a DVD dics where you can hop on to certain scenes.

[PrinceofDarkness]

My question is, did Nintendo really think this through when it actually happened? Did they have any idea of a split timeline with two worlds progressing through time at the same time? Or was this just a common fan reaction.

I think shigeru purposefully made the split timeline at the end of OOT so he would able to make more games and would be able to start over in a sense. I think it was very much done on purpose, and I think it was a great idea.

i have seen the movie and i understand what you are trying to say.
thats what i meant in my last post with number two. i don 't know if link really returns to zelda just to warn her. i think she still remembers everything. notice links triforce on its hand, ganondorf still keeps his triforce and so is zelda. if link is warning about ganon and he returned to a time in his past were zelda and link 's first meeting occurd, then the triforce must be gone from link zelda and ganondorf.



Link does? I totally forgot that. I need to watch OOt's ending again. I know the future Ganon still has his but I was unaware that kid zelda and link retained theres. That wouldn't logically make sense as there would be no way for them to obtain it yet unless it just means they are the chosen ones like in AoL.

update, just watched the ending again, didn't see any sign of link zelda or ganon having the triforce symbols on there hands in the past.

[Mases]

Okay, I've thought about this pretty extensively lately and something just doesn't seem right.

The plot in Ocarina of Time to me seems rather linear, even though it jumps through time, however, there is something that doesn't make sense to me.

At the end of the adult Link ending, Princess Zelda sends Link back in time to warn young Princess Zelda of the events that are going to take place. Thus, the events actually happened in the future and Link knows them and they aren't just a 'legend'.

So he then speaks with young Princess Zelda, and together they prevent Ganondorf from taking over and then the events of the future never take place... right?

Now, wouldn't this create a time paradox for Young Link in the ending? He physically battled through at Adult Link and now warned young Princess Zelda of those events and now they never occur. This creates a complete time paradox since Link would never even know about the events if they never took place and thus the meeting between the two would never take place. It's a complete paradox and makes absolutely no sense at all to me.

Does anybody understand where I'm coming at? If not, could somebody try to explain what I'm missing.

[linkman8]

I understand where you're coming from. It's a time-traveling paradox similar to that of the Grandfather Paradox.
Perhaps when he was sent back in time to warn everyone of Ganondorf, it did indeed create too separate timelines, or perhaps another universe in a way, unconnected to each other. So in that case, the adult Link timeline would've still occured, but just on a separate thread of time.

[Mases]

Well, ya, I fully understand it creates a split and there are two completely separate paths. The paradox I'm mentioning isn't about that, it's strictly about young Link at the end of the game. Since he lived through and remembers the future events. (Unless when he was sent back, he wasn't sent back through the Temple of Time, but rather, just sent back further to when he was still living in Kokiri Forest).

If that was the case, he wouldn't know of the future events. The fact that he still does know about the future, means that he actually went through those events and/or that future Zelda actually told him of the events. Yet, once he tells young Zelda of those events, they no longer ever occur (in the child timeline), so how could Link still exist with his knowledge of the future because it never happened.

In the prologue of Majora's Mask, it takes place with Young Link, and this is what is said...


A boy who,
after battling evil and saving
Hyrule, crept away from the land
that had made him a legend...

Done with the battles he once
waged across time, he embarked
on a journey. A secret and
personal journey...

So did HE REALLY battle across time? Is the prologue just wrong then? Since those events never take place in the child timeline.

[zeypherlink]

I'm pretty sure the Link in MM is Link after he's been sent back in time by Zelda...So that would mean that he DID battle across time. But theoretically...if he's sent back in time there must be another Link, which would create a paradox as you said...

[Avenged]

Okay, I've thought about this pretty extensively lately and something just doesn't seem right.

The plot in Ocarina of Time to me seems rather linear, even though it jumps through time, however, there is something that doesn't make sense to me.

At the end of the adult Link ending, Princess Zelda sends Link back in time to warn young Princess Zelda of the events that are going to take place. Thus, the events actually happened in the future and Link knows them and they aren't just a 'legend'.

So he then speaks with young Princess Zelda, and together they prevent Ganondorf from taking over and then the events of the future never take place... right?

Now, wouldn't this create a time paradox for Young Link in the ending? He physically battled through at Adult Link and now warned young Princess Zelda of those events and now they never occur. This creates a complete time paradox since Link would never even know about the events if they never took place and thus the meeting between the two would never take place. It's a complete paradox and makes absolutely no sense at all to me.

Does anybody understand where I'm coming at? If not, could somebody try to explain what I'm missing.

Well this is why some say TP happens in Young Link's timeline since Link warns Zelda and the King about Ganondorf, they then banish Ganondorf out of Hyrule. Ganondorf later attempts to take over the Sacred Realm and is sentenced to death and then banished to the Twilight Realm. But anyways the whole OoT situation is kinda of retarded IMO. i mean, why would you try to kill Ganondorf in the future only, he is obviously still around in the present, and why the hell did Rauru make Link sleep in the Sacred Realm for seven years when Link could have just obtained the full Triforce and prevented everything. Ok say they didnt know Ganondorf was folllowing Links every move, have Link go back in time and do it again.

Anyways, Link wasnt exactly sent back before everything happened, if that were so wouldnt he have to do his quest all over again? At the end you do in fact see Link at Hyrule Castle speaking with Zelda. But yea it all doesnt make sense to me neither.

[Jirrup]

I think what happened was that when Young Link returned the Master Sword to the Pedestal of Time, he erased the dilapidated future that he'd created by pulling it out in the first place. Perhaps that's why Adult Zelda looked so upset about sending Adult Link back to the Past - he knew she was destroying herself.

But the Triforce, which currently existed in the future, couldn't be destroyed, so it went back 7 years to Ganondorf, Young Link and Young Zelda. Ganondorf was arrested, half-executed, and sent to the Twilight Realm before he could do anything really fancy with the Triforce of Power.

Just my 2p from my single timeline theory.

[Avenged]

Its not the same Link in TP, that Link never even met Zelda and well takes place hundreds of years after OoT. It didnt destroy the future, if that were true then wouldnt it destroy the future everytime Link went back in time? Now heres two things that interests me though. But Iam curious on how Link from TP obtained the Triforce of Courage in the first place since he always had it since the start of the game.

[Jirrup]

Its not the same Link in TP, that Link never even met Zelda and well takes place hundreds of years after OoT.

I am aware of this. Ganondorf's execution in TP is a flashback to the OoT days.

It didnt destroy the future, if that were true then wouldnt it destroy the future everytime Link went back in time?

Remember that it's Zelda who sent Link back at the end of OoT, not Link placing the Sword back at his own free will.
"Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage I can return you to your original time with it." - Zelda

But Iam curious on how Link from TP obtained the Triforce of Courage in the first place since he always had it since the start of the game.

As demonstrated in the Royal Family of Hyrule, the Triforce is passed down through bloodlines. TP Link is a decendant of OoT Link.
"Go and do not falter, my child!" - Hero's Spirit, believed by many to be OoT Link

[Avenged]

Even if he was a descendant, it wouldnt mean anything. If Link was sent back before any of the events in OoT and the ToT was never really opened, then no one has any piece of the Triforce.

Edit - And if I recall, if Young Link still had the Triforce which I assume he did since it was said that when he travelled to Termina, The Triforce of Courage actually left him since he was seperated from Hyrule. And then theres this quote.

"A piece of the Triforce was given to the
Hero of Time and he kept it safe, much as
Zelda kept hers.
That sacred piece is known as the
Triforce of Courage.
When the Hero of Time was called to
embark on another journey and left the
land of Hyrule, he was separated from the
elements that made him a hero.
It is said that at that time, the Triforce of
Courage was split into eight shards and
hidden throughout the land.
Even I do not know where they rest, but
this much I do know: they lie hidden
somewhere in this Great Sea."

So thats pretty much saying TWW occurs in Young Link's timeline, not Adult. So that also means if Link doesnt exist in the future anymore, how did the Link from TP obtain the Triforce of Courage.

[TheManInTheMoon]

While I believe TWW was developed under the notion of a linear timeline (allowing it to follow both OoT and MM) it did certaintly end up in the Adult Timeline, which means some quotes have to be evaluated with that in mind. Quotes such as this

When the Hero of Time was called to
embark on another journey and left the
land of Hyrule, he was separated from the
elements that made him a hero.

change meaning from leaving to Termina to leaving the adult timeline (when Zelda sent him back.

[Avenged]

Its not talking about when Zelda sent Link back, Link didnt leave Hyrule. However, Link did leave Hyrule when he embarcked on his journey to Termina.

"embark on another journey and left the
land of Hyrule"

Who knows though, maybe the hylians just thought he left Hyrule since he was no where to be found. But either way it was said that when Link left, the Triforce split into eight pieces and was scattered across Hyule, still doesnt explain how TP Link obtained it. Cuz Link left both worlds in each timeline...he left to Termina in Young Link timeline which would also seperate him from the Triforce and I suppose going back in time did the same thing. But yeah, heres a quote from Miyamoto concerning TWW place in the timeline.

"There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of the Ocarina of Time, there were two time period endings to that game. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult and he actually went back to being a child. You could actually say that the ending where he was an adult, The Wind Waker would take place 100 years after that. "

But truthfully, they dont even know a damn thing about the timeline half the time. They'll say one thing and then change with a newer Zelda game.

[TheManInTheMoon]

In the absense of another logical explanation of the state of the Triforce leading up to TP, then that leaves us with the in-game explanation, the "Divine Prank".

[Avenged]

The Divine Prank was merely saying that Ganondorf tried to conqour the Sacred Realm, failed, but yet still obtained the Triforce of Power.

[TheManInTheMoon]

"merely"?

In order to get the ToP (by normal means) he would have had to touch the Triforce.
If he touched the Triforce he would have conquered the SR, no try and fail.
We know that he did not conquer it, and therefore did not touch the Triforce (accounting for the Sages' surprise at him having it).

"Divine Prank" then implies that it was the Goddesses that gifted Ganondorf with the ToP, as they did with Link and Zelda and their respective parts.

[Mases]

Not to jump back in time (pun intended), but my confusion/argument about the Time Paradox was what I was curious to know about. The placement of Twilight Princess and Wind Waker can be discussed endlessly... (in another topic).

I just don't get how in Majora's Mask prologue, they mention the hero battled through time and now is on his own journey. This is inferring that this Link actually did battle through time in the future of Ocarina of Time. However, at the end of Ocarina of Time when young Link warns Princess Zelda of Ganondorf's real plans, this changes the future. Thus, this same young Link would then be remembering things that never existed? This is a time Paradox. He fought in the future and remembers what Adult Princess Zelda told him, but those events never happened... since Ganondorf is stopped when Link is still young.

So in Majora's Mask, this young Link... wasn't the Hero of Time anymore, because those events never happened in the Majora's Mask timeline. This just doesn't make sense to me at all.

[TheManInTheMoon]

Before Zelda sends him back, she mentions that you must close the door of time

"You must lay the Master Sword to
rest and close the Door of Time...

However, by doing this, the road
between times will be closed..."

That implies that going back doesn't erase that future, it just cuts it off, allowing for a new one to be made

[Avenged]

The events did happen in Young Links timeline, how else could he be in the sword chamber. And the fact that Young Link was wielding the Master Sword in his own time says something as well that all the events happened. Link even had the Ocarina of Time during Majoras Mask.

[Dabombster]

I always saw it as Link went back in time and returned the Master Sword. So, even though he did return it, the events still happened, as it was the past, thus making two versions of the same Link (the one who had yet to get the Master sword, and the one that had).

This would leave the one that had in Majora's Mask, and the one in Ocarina of Time, thus causing a split in the timeline itself.

[Avenged]

There was only one Link aside from Future Link. It wasn't the past, but the present. OoT is a fluke, if you pay attention to the ending, it seems it starts all over again...Link walks up to Zelda as Zelda watches Ganondorf inside the castle. But this time around, link warns Zelda and I suppose the King took action resulting in the events of the Twilight Princess scene flashbacks.

[Inflexus]

Do you guys remember the Terminator movie?

It was a simple time paradox: The kid the lady is supposed to have is created when that kid goes back in time to get her pregnant with herself.

That's impossible, because he would never have been able to exist if he didn't create himself by having a baby with her, but he is that baby.

It's like asking "Which came first? The chicken, or the egg?" and then throwing time travel into the equation. It crates an erroneous system that can not possibly exist.

Same with the ending of Ocarina of Time. To say the ending is rational is to say it never happened in the context of the game, therefore the events of the game would become unresolved and have to happen again, but in doing so the ending would be resolved and alter the events in the past, causing them to repeat themselves indefinitely.

That is a time paradox, and that is what it creates. Link would be forever caught in that loop. This means the series, with Link and his descendants, as the main characters, would not be able to move forward.

And without Link, the rest of the game cannot progress forward.

Logically the ending cannot happen the way it did unless it creates a never ending 7 year loop. Link can not move on and away from that loop, and Hyrule's existence is relying upon that loop. No one, from the hero's perspective, can move forward in time.

One can also theorize that this creates different "compartmentalized" planes of reality, at different stages of the journy based on Link's progress and such, where relationships are different in each universe. For instance, one where Ganondorf is preemptively defeated, where Link grows up to be a normal boy, and a different "plane" or "dimension" or "universe", where Link is caught in a time loop eternally, and a separate plane where Link stays as an adult, and stuff like that.

Of course this is all just theory, and based on the evidence. I wouldn't trust that Nintendo would be able to explain itself out of something defying such in-depth logic as this adequately, though I suppose it comes down to Ocarina of Time being "just a game."

Any thoughts on that at all?

[Mases]

I'm going to first make the assumption that there is a split timeline. In this case, the adult timeline is perfectly logical. All the events occur, the games ending occurs where Link defeats Ganon. Link is then sent back in time. The adult timeline takes place in the adult Link world, (although Link is absent because he was sent back in time). To me, this is perfectly logical.

The young Link timeline is where it gets screwy. After Adult Link is sent back in time, he apparently warns Princess Zelda of the future, thus, preventing the future from ever happening. At that point, how does Link even know about the future to warn Zelda of... if it never happens?

I don't think looking at it rationally is the way to go about it. Perhaps mysterious power is within the Ocarina of Time so that once Princess Zelda sends Link back in time... (Princess Zelda still has the OOT since she didn't give it to Link yet in the past). Perhaps the Ocarina of Time has this knowledge of a 'possible' future and that Zelda knows of Link's destiny. In this case, the Link we know is uncertain of any events of the future. Then Zelda and Link together prevent Ganondorf from gaining power and prevent everything that has happened in the future. This story, that was past via the Ocarina of Time is no longer fact, but now just a legend. So although young Link never actually battles through the future, he is regarded as the hero of time because of the legend.

[Inflexus]

I'm going to first make the assumption that there is a split timeline. In this case, the adult timeline is perfectly logical.

Not necessaraly. Typically, the split timeline theory suggests that TP comes before Wind Waker, but that would be impossible because Ganon died in Twilight Princess, and could not possibly exist in a "future game".

Anyways, that's just one of several reasons why I don't believe that theory, but I'd rather stay on topic for the sake of the discussion.


All the events occur, the games ending occurs where Link defeats Ganon. Link is then sent back in time. The adult timeline takes place in the adult Link world, (although Link is absent because he was sent back in time). To me, this is perfectly logical.

Link's timeline was based heavily on his decendants, but Link doesn't have a way to make kids unless he's an adult. This would indicate that all the games would have to had happened on a single time line(the "child Link timeline),and/or a single plane of reality, over the course of several generations.

However that contradicts the 3 or 4 reality planes(I would argue for more around 5-7 at least) needed for the split timeline to be a possibility.


The young Link timeline is where it gets screwy. After Adult Link is sent back in time, he apparently warns Princess Zelda of the future, thus, preventing the future from ever happening. At that point, how does Link even know about the future to warn Zelda of... if it never happens?


Exactly my point. Link's future is caught in a never ending loop because he must constantly resolve the events of the future to resolve his past, but in doing so he contradicts the events of the future and therefore they would be unresolved, forcing him to go over it again and again and again endlessly. Link's perspective, Link's conciousness, would never be able to move forward.

Another problem is that Zelda allready warned the King(the only person who could have done anything) about the omens and her dreams and such, but he refused to act. Zelda has no authority other than that, and we also know Ganondorf is the strongest character in the game at that point. The king's guard, the gorons, the zoras would have been killed off if Ganondorf wanted it to happen. He had that ability.

So Link had no way to prevent him from coming to power in the first place, meaning the time paradox is a necessity and that it can never be resolved, regardless of Link's awareness.

And if Link cannot progress to adulthood without looping back into childhood, then he can't have decendants who further the other games. This means the "Adult Link" Timeline is irrational and is impossible.


I don't think looking at it rationally is the way to go about it.

That's why my theory makes the most sense-there is no real timeline because the logic between games has failed and Ocarina of Time exists in a way that it can never be resolved.


Perhaps mysterious power is within the Ocarina of Time so that once Princess Zelda sends Link back in time... (Princess Zelda still has the OOT since she didn't give it to Link yet in the past). Perhaps the Ocarina of Time has this knowledge of a 'possible' future and that Zelda knows of Link's destiny.

First of all, this is merely speculation, but this does a lot of guess work so I'll address it as such.

We know that the Ocarina of Time has the ability to transmit messages(Link learned the song through psychic chats with Zelda) but it did not go to the past in it's old state. The Ocarina continued into the "adult" timeline because it stayed with Zelda.

Then it would have been impossible for it to take a message back to the past, because it would not have yet existed in a conscious state where it was aware of the future and the message that Zelda maybe would have been able to send.


In this case, the Link we know is uncertain of any events of the future. Then Zelda and Link together prevent Ganondorf from gaining power and prevent everything that has happened in the future. This story, that was past via the Ocarina of Time is no longer fact, but now just a legend.

Actually, it means the story of the Ocarina of Time would never have existed, therefore no one would know anything about it.


In short, you have an allright theory there, except for using the self-refuting "split timeline" theory as the premise of the arguement.

[Mehplep]

Not necessaraly. Typically, the split timeline theory suggests that TP comes before Wind Waker, but that would be impossible because Ganon died in Twilight Princess, and could not possibly exist in a "future game".

Anyways, that's just one of several reasons why I don't believe that theory, but I'd rather stay on topic for the sake of the discussion.
TP before WW? If you are going after GameTrailer's timeline, we all can say already now that it's wrong. TP should take place after OoT, but not before WW.



Link's timeline was based heavily on his decendants, but Link doesn't have a way to make kids unless he's an adult. This would indicate that all the games would have to had happened on a single time line(the "child Link timeline),and/or a single plane of reality, over the course of several generations.

However that contradicts the 3 or 4 reality planes(I would argue for more around 5-7 at least) needed for the split timeline to be a possibility.
WW explains this very good. In all other games exept AoL, Link have just waited until "the hero inside him awakes", and then he have the triforce of courage within him. In WW though, Link don't have it, since he is not a decendant of the Link with the ToC, so what do he do? He setts off to find all the eight pieces! So it's obvious that this Link is NOT a decendant from Link in OoT, but still the wielder of the ToC.

Also, 5-7 alternitive realitys? The split timeline indicates two, timeline A and timeline B. You could mess it up and say that OoA too creates a timeline, but this will still just make three.



Exactly my point. Link's future is caught in a never ending loop because he must constantly resolve the events of the future to resolve his past, but in doing so he contradicts the events of the future and therefore they would be unresolved, forcing him to go over it again and again and again endlessly. Link's perspective, Link's conciousness, would never be able to move forward.
There are other ways to tell those things. Take, uh, Dragonball Z for example. Trunks is in the future where C17 and C18 have killed 2/3 of the worlds population. To seek for aid, he travels back in time, to warn Goku about the androids. But even though Goku (or Vegeta... whatever) succeds, the future Trunks is in still have C17 and C18 on a killing spree. This is because when Trunks traveled back in time, he did not create a paradox or altered the past at all, he just managed everything to split off the normal timeflow and create a alternative reality, hence the name "split timeline". This will leave the same past until he traveled back, where a new past was created where the androids were killed and the people saved, but he still lives in the one with the androids killing the world.

Another problem is that Zelda allready warned the King(the only person who could have done anything) about the omens and her dreams and such, but he refused to act. Zelda has no authority other than that, and we also know Ganondorf is the strongest character in the game at that point. The king's guard, the gorons, the zoras would have been killed off if Ganondorf wanted it to happen. He had that ability.
This is just theorys, but that's what discussing the Zelda timeline pretty much is about... when Ganondorf took over Hyrule in the past, he did it through the sacred realm. He went into it through the Temple of Time, which Link had opened. And it was from there he gained the ability to take over the world, he did not have it before. When Link travels back, he lands in the temple of time, where the Master Sword lies on the pedestal. This tells that Link never opened the sacred realm, meaning Ganondorf never could've claimed his powers, and are therefore helpless. Even though Zelda's warnings didn't do much, the King still banished Ganondorf and the Gerudo after he tried to take the throne without his powers, leading into the Gerudo becomming Twili. But that's another story...

[Inflexus]

TP before WW? If you are going after GameTrailer's timeline, we all can say already now that it's wrong. TP should take place after OoT, but not before WW.


My question would be why Ganon did not die in Wind Waker, but that's a seperate question. We know that somehow Hyrule has to be unflooded in order for TP to happen after Wind Waker, but that has not happened in any game and we have no evidence to believe that it will or will not happen.



WW explains this very good. In all other games exept AoL, Link have just waited until "the hero inside him awakes", and then he have the triforce of courage within him. In WW though, Link don't have it, since he is not a decendant of the Link with the ToC, so what do he do? He setts off to find all the eight pieces! So it's obvious that this Link is NOT a decendant from Link in OoT, but still the wielder of the ToC.


I'd say that's debatable, in Ocarina of Time Ganondorf curses Link, Zelda, and Link's Decendants until the end of time. It would mean that Link's decendants would most likely be through blood as opposed to being metaphorical decendants, passed along through the Master Sword and the Triforce of Courage.


Also, 5-7 alternitive realitys? The split timeline indicates two, timeline A and timeline B. You could mess it up and say that OoA too creates a timeline, but this will still just make three.


Once I create my graphic I will illustrate this point to what my theory suggests.


There are other ways to tell those things. Take, uh, Dragonball Z for example. Trunks is in the future where C17 and C18 have killed 2/3 of the worlds population. To seek for aid, he travels back in time, to warn Goku about the androids. But even though Goku (or Vegeta... whatever) succeds, the future Trunks is in still have C17 and C18 on a killing spree. This is because when Trunks traveled back in time, he did not create a paradox or altered the past at all, he just managed everything to split off the normal timeflow and create a alternative reality, hence the name "split timeline". This will leave the same past until he traveled back, where a new past was created where the androids were killed and the people saved, but he still lives in the one with the androids killing the world.


Long story short: He did something irrational and the plot had to be irrational as well to avoid keeping him in a paradox loop.

This is different than the Ocarina of Time, because it sounds as though Goku could do something legitimate to change the past, but even in doing so he would then make himself unaware of what would happen and it would create a paradox regardless.

In effect, using DBZ as a reference is a strawman arguement.


This is just theorys, but that's what discussing the Zelda timeline pretty much is about...

I think you mean speculation, not theory. I want to correct that ahead of time because speculation is simply saying a possibility, wheras a theory is an educated statement supported by evidence that has not been disproven, ie the Pythagorean Theorum.


when Ganondorf took over Hyrule in the past, he did it through the sacred realm. He went into it through the Temple of Time, which Link had opened. And it was from there he gained the ability to take over the world, he did not have it before. When Link travels back, he lands in the temple of time, where the Master Sword lies on the pedestal. This tells that Link never opened the sacred realm, meaning Ganondorf never could've claimed his powers, and are therefore helpless. Even though Zelda's warnings didn't do much, the King still banished Ganondorf and the Gerudo after he tried to take the throne without his powers, leading into the Gerudo becomming Twili. But that's another story...

Assuming your logic with that is correct then you still don't account for Ocarina's time paradox.

[Avenged]

Twilight Princess occurs in a different timeline than that of The Wind Waker.

[Inflexus]

Twilight Princess occurs in a different timeline than that of The Wind Waker.

That, my friend, would depend on your timeline theory. I typically will reference the GameTrailers timeline because it is the best I've seen so far.

[Avenged]

I go by what the creators have said. Eiji Aonuma (if you even know who that is) mentioned that the split timelne theory is the correct theory.

[Inflexus]

I go by what the creators have said. Eiji Aonuma (if you even know who that is) mentioned that the split timelne theory is the correct theory.

That wasn't what he said but that was his implication. That is an important thing to note when analyzing that statement. Does anyone have a copy of that interview in it's original context?

[linkman8]

I didn't find him originally saying that, but I found this, said by Aonuma himself regarding Twilight Princess's place in the timeline:

–When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

–And the Wind Waker?

Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...

Found it here: http://www.thehylia.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1173582355&archive=&start_from=&ucat=19&

[Mases]

The Split Timeline occurs because of alternative endings at Ocarina of Time. Not necessaryily two different endings that happen in two different time periods. Let me explain.

As Adult Link, you defeat Ganon, restore Hyule, etc... Zelda sends Link back in time so that he can live his childhood. In this Adult timeline, to me it is assumed that Link DOES not work with Zelda to prevent the events of Ocarina of Time. Thus, the events actually do occur and the storyline continues in the Adult time frame without Link.

The alternative ending is that Link travels back in time and Link and Zelda prevent Ganondorf from ever regaining power. Just keep in mind this is a video game and suppose there is some other way (perhaps the Ocarina of Time as I suggested), that the message was given from Adult Zelda to Young Zelda. Sure Link to did not bring the Ocarina back with him, but it is called the 'Ocarina of Time', perhaps meaning that it has the power to see through time and inherit the message from the future.

Anyway, young Link and Zelda do prevent Ganondorf from taking power and the events of Adult Link never take place. Thus, this is the young Link timeline. Perhaps 'Split' is not the most appropriate word to distinguish the timeline, but it is clear that there are two alternate endings. They don't BOTH happen, but only one happens in each version. Thus, it is not a paradox, but it just spawns two possible endings at which the series has progressed further.

So ya, Majoras Mask does take place somewhere in between the Adult Link and Young Link quest of Ocarina of Time, but you cannot look at it like that. Since Majoras Mask is a sequel to the Young Link ending, where the future isn't known. Remember, the endings don't both occur, only one occurs. If a gamer thinks of the two endings happening simultaneously, that is a flaw in the theory, since they do not. Only one ending can happen at a time.

[Inflexus]

EDIT: Thanks Mases, the idea of the Ocarina transferring information through time inspired me to look for ways to resolve the paradox and not just parry it off as imposible.

I have a new explanation and this will be incorporated into the alternate split timeline theory I have created. This resolves the time paradox created by Ocarina of Time and successfully links it to the other games.

Once Link gets sent back in time at the end of the game by Zelda, he meets her again. He makes her aware of what will happen if they continue the route he went before, and because she had dreams that she would meet Link, she trusts him. Link creates plans, possibly to awaken the sages early or to fight the evil influence of Ganondorf as it spreads through Hyrule. Link collects the Ocarina of Time and possibly the spiritual stones, but does not pull out the Master Sword.

Instead he gets Epona, and since Epona has matured a bit (as Link has), so now he is able to ride her. He now has the means to easily and quickly navigate Hyrule and he decides to use this opportunity to begin to awaken the sages early.

He rides Epona into the Lost Woods, in an effort to awaken Saria, when he happens upon the Skull Kid and two fairies…

This is how I think it would impact the timeline. In fact, it would change the location of the split. Because it creates a loop I call it the Split/Loop Timeline. I'll make it a formal thread later with more evidence where it can be argued.

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n329/inflexus/betaloopsplittimelinecopy.png

[zeypherlink]

Instead he gets Epona, and since Epona has matured a bit (as Link has), so now he is able to ride her. He now has the means to easily and quickly navigate Hyrule and he decides to use this opportunity to begin to awaken the sages early.

He rides Epona into the Lost Woods, in an effort to awaken Saria, when he happens upon the Skull Kid and two fairies…
Ever play MM or OoT?
If you did, you would know that at the end of OoT, after Link is sent back to the Child Timeline, Navi leaves him. Then in MM, Link is looking for Navi. There has been much debate over this, but if you've played the game you would know at the beginning of the game, it says Link is searching for a "beloved and invaluable friend. One whom he parted ways when he finally fufilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends".
Also, in the beginning of MM you can hear a fairy rattle exactly like Navi's, hinting at the fact that Link is looking for Navi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUFT-p2_qYI

From 47-50, you can hear Navi.